DB Cooper

[georger 268]

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I give up - this is what Snowmman and Georger were sent here to do - to bury the truth in so much technology that no one would ever see the truth. Those pictures of the Fazion home are not as they appeared in 2001. There were buildings to the East of the parking lot - but back further from the river - there were trucks there.

Jo you MUST keep your tinfoil hat on!

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[georger 268]

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"I have focused on the inside channel at Catapilalr Isle before - now Im focusing on the outside edge
as a pressure route to Tina Bar ? "

That makes sense. I think I remember seeing nav charts from the '70s, and it was deep right by Tina Bar back then also. Note it's not deep by Caterpillar Island.

What's interesting is that they label the main "channel" as on the west side of the river still in this area. They label the east side of the river "anchorage"

Note where they label the "Morgan Turn"
Maybe that's the key point where the water flow turns.
(attached)

But the depth of the water, so close to shore, must be an indication of high velocity water?

I think that's what's interesting. The water flow just off Tena Bar, is different than the water flow just off Caterpillar Island.

point taken. colour of water alone agrees with this
depth difference. It is hard for me to believe anything washing up on C or T would not be noticed
quickly - and then there is the burial scenario which
takes more time.

[snowmman 3]

  Quote

[
point taken. colour of water alone agrees with this
depth difference. It is hard for me to believe anything washing up on C or T would not be noticed
quickly - and then there is the burial scenario which
takes more time.

I saw the apparently discolored water too.

However, one thing to watch out for: I think there are merges of satellite data with different amounts of sunlight. Note how the sand on the west shore, is much darker than the sand on the east shore. I think it's just because of two different satellite photos.


On your question of how something beaches. ...I think just a slight variation of how a log or stick beaches. The water pressure changes as it approaches shore. Maybe some sticks out in the air, so there's less water pressure. Then the friction against the bottom (maybe always there if it was moving on the bottom) is stronger than the water forces.

I think it doesn't take much to hold it for a little while, then water recedes and then there's not as much flotation, so there's more friction..so it's a cascading process?

(edit) Oh remember there's the transverse flows too in the deep channel? I'll find that pick again...i.e. stuff wants to move to shore?

[snowmman 3]

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/6664/6664.ch04.php

good read on river channel behaviors. Has nice pictures (of CA rivers) showing examples.

"Once begun, the growth of meander bends is self-driven. As most rafters, canoeists, and kayakers know, as water runs into a tight meander bend it appears to pile up against the cut bank.

Termed superelevation, this water creates a hydraulic head that sets up a strong secondary flow cell within the meander bend.

Water within the flow cell plunges downward along the outside of the meander bend, crossing along the bottom and then upward into the other bank before flowing back toward the cut bank.

The intense secondary flow cell created by superelevation acts to accelerate erosion of the bank and the bed on the outside of the meander. This, in conjunction with the high-velocity gradients that naturally occur on the steep sides of asymmetric channel (fig. 4.1), hastens the lateral growth of the meander bend. "


...

"Most of the work that a river does is conducted within its channel. The channel cross section and the plan view pattern of channels reflect the balance of energy expenditures by a river as it handles its load and discharge. The overall shape of channel cross sections is presumed by many geomorphologists to be controlled by the relatively frequent bankfull stage events coupled with the nature of the bank materials. Suspended load-dominated rivers tend to have fine-grained, erosionally resistant banks, which lead to the formation of steep-walled, narrow channels that are more efficient at moving material in suspension. Bedload-dominated rivers have bank materials that are primarily made up of coarse-grained, less cohesive sediment. Channels established in these materials tend to be wider and shallower"

...

"Point bars develop on the inside portion of meander bends where helical flow allows accumulation of sediments. "

[377 22]

I really am enjoying the tutorials on river hydrology.

I keep wondering what happened to the canopy? Could it stay in the river if Cooper went in as a no pull? Could it stay in the river if Cooper went in the river under an open canopy?

If Cooper was killed on land, I think his remains and/or his gear would have been found by now. I know it's terribly simplistic, but the fact that the harness/container and canopy were never found makes it likely (to me) that Cooper either survived and hid them or that he went into the river and remains there.

Big items (logs) get washed ashore, but their bouyancy has a lot to do with that. I don't know what the river would do with a body and parachute gear. I know that non bouyant logs stay under for decades. A guy is making a living raising half century old cut logs from the riverbed of Big River near Mendocino CA. Similar projects are happening elsewhere.

Have old bodies ever been recovered from the beds of rivers similar to the Columbia? Don't sunken bodies often float a few days later as gas from decay inflates body cavities?

I favor a Cooper survival, but I am too biased to be objective. We know where some of the money ended up. We know where the door placard ended up. We have no idea where the largest and perhaps most durable items ended up i.e. the canopy and related gear.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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Have old bodies ever been recovered from the beds of rivers similar to the Columbia? Don't sunken bodies often float a few days later as gas from decay inflates body cavities?

hmmm...some other tutorials, on dead bodies and decay yes they float... then sink again. at some stage decomposition will be advanced enough that there is nothing left to float. this all assumes not snagged on anything, no cement boots etc. While i learnt all this on CSI , here are some references:

http://www.slate.com/id/2126310/

http://mx.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006020700794

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A newly dead human being, or any other animal, will sink when placed in water. After the gases of decomposition build up in the chest and abdomen, however, the body will inflate, rise like a hydrogen-filled balloon, and pop to the surface, sometimes dragging with it surprisingly heavy weights that a murderer might have thought sufficient to keep it down. With the passage of time and further decomposition, however, the body cavities eventually rupture, the gas escapes, and the corpse goes down again, this time for good.

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Body position. A person who was dead before entering the water can still sink depending on the position of the body. If the body is upright when dumped into the water, water can enter the lungs while air escapes. Hence, the body sinks after a short time. If the body is prone (face down), the air in the lungs can't escape, so the body floats

-- i thought the above worth quoting in light of the most likely way to represent a water landing (esp at night when you may not realise its water till you're in it)

and re reports of Cooper's build:

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Body fat. Body fat is less dense than water. The fatter a person is, the more buoyant the body. Muscle on the other hand is denser than water, so people with a lot of muscle--or people who are just plain lean--tend to sink.

but 377, this may interest you more: (and the site it comes from seems more authoratitive than some of the others)
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/400990/drowning_investigations/

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Another case involved a man who was accidentally ejected from a boat traveling at a high rate of speed on a Missouri lake. Apparently, he hit his head, became unconscious, and drowned, disappearing below the surface of the water. The incident occurred in the main channel of the lake, which measured over .5 mile wide and varied from 70 to 110 feet deep. A witness could not closely identify the location of the accident, hampering investigators' attempts to locate the victim. To further complicate matters, the area had a substantial amount of underwater timber that remained from before the formation of the lake. Authorities made numerous attempts to recover the man's body by dragging, scuba diving, and using canines-all of these methods proved unsuccessful. Five years later, the remains of a decomposed foot wearing a sock and a tennis shoe surfaced and began floating in the approximate area of the lake where the man's body disappeared. Authorities identified the sneaker as the one worn by the victim before the accident. Decay was well advanced, and the joint at the ankle had completely rotted away, allowing the foot to float free from the body. Although most corpses come to the surface during the decomposition process, this case probably represented one of the rare instances in which a body remains entangled in some type of underwater obstruction, such as timber or brush.

in other words, whatever is left of Cooper could be in bits. Which makes me think of something else though: are there crawfish (etc) in the Columbia?

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Death by cardiac arrest, rather than by drowning, presents another possibility when individuals become suddenly and unexpectedly submersed in cold water or overexerted. Additionally, uncontrollable respiratory distress due to cold water immersion may cause the victim to inhale water, and investigators may falsely suspect drowning.

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Generally, a drowning victim will reach the bottom of a body of water in spite of the depth, unless it meets some obstruction on the way down. As the corpse descends further, the pressure of the water tends to compress gases in the abdominal wall and chest cavities. As a result, the body displaces less water as it sinks and, consequently, becomes less buoyant the further down it goes, until it reaches the bottom

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Factors that effect the length of time for a body to surface after drowning include fat content, consumption of beverages and food preceding death, water temperature at the bottom, and depth at the location. Recent meals high in carbohydrates (e.g., candy, beer, and potato chips) nourish certain bacteria that will encourage quick refloat.6 In warm and shallow water, the gases within the body form rapidly, resulting in a possible rise to the surface within a day or two. In deep and cold water, bacterial action takes place slowly, and the corpse may not appear for several weeks.

And then how could I resist this bit, in light of above discussions:

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Rivers and the Effects of Currents

Rivers differ from other bodies of water in two ways-they are shallow and have currents. Depths of less than 10 feet do not have a high level of compression on the internal air spaces of drowning victims.

In extremely heavy currents, such as in flash-flood situations, the victim's body probably will roll on the bottom for a considerable distance-trees or other debris also may carry along the corpse. During normal conditions in most rivers, this is not the case, and investigators usually will find victims on the bottom relatively close to the drowning site. However, after the body floats to the surface, it may drift due to the current before washing ashore or coming to rest in a back eddy

in lakes:

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Lakes rarely have a current strong enough to affect a body sinking or surfacing. However, the victim likely will move after refloat, and wind can push corpses. In lakes, the effect of even slight wind movement easily can offset any current that might exist.

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Putrefaction refers to the decomposition of the body because of bacteria and fermentation. Although this process can take longer in water-submerged victims, these individuals may remain concealed longer when they become hidden in water or vegetation or lost in a large body of water; this results in correspondingly advanced postmortem changes before recovery. No time schedule for the stages of decomposition exists as differing water and climatic conditions will have a profound effect. Generally, cold and swiftly moving water preserves bodies, whereas heavy clothing and stagnant, warm water hasten decomposition.

ok, enough morbidity for one day.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

Yuck! That was Gross! as my grand-daughter would say.

On a good note - things are popping regarding my investigation and they are ALL good.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

As gross as the description is of decomposition within a water body I do have some questions.

If the body never came to the surface for what-ever reason,
would not the bones have later have washed ashore or been dreged - say within the time frame of the money or later?

After the money find - they (meaning not only the FBI, but the general public) were looking for bones - but NOT one was found.

In the yrs to come - many scoured the shore line and the river looking for evidence of Cooper - but, not one bone was ever found.

The fishermen thought they might snag him. Dregers thought they might see evidence of his remains.
Treasure seekers were looking for more money and human bones. Some of these people knew the hydraulogy and currents of the river and how to judge about where Cooper's remains and/or money might have settled - but NO one ever found anything.

Snowmman that was not a shout, it was being emphatic - I have been refraining from the caps now that I understand what this means in computer language...but occasionly you will see caps when I want to be sure others see it. I will limit this to specifics as above.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

worrying about no body found in the Columbia is pointless.

It assumes, for instance, that all other drowning victims in the Columbia have been found.

They haven't been.

I don't have the exact numbers. I posted one account from a private plane crash on the columbia, in the '70s where a body was never found.

There's actually quite a lot of drownings in the Columbia, every year?
I think more than single digits.

I've read a couple of accounts where body wasn't found until 2-3 months later.

I've read one account that had a kid reporting a body around the time of the cooper hijack, but when LE checked it out, there was no body there. I can't find that article again, and always wonder if there was the possibility of a body washing back out. Be nice if we had all police reports from that week.

Here's one where the body wasn't found for 7 months.
http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/NEWSRL/news/07_31_2007_dickinson.shtml


from http://www.dhs.state.or.us/dhs/ph/chs/data/newsltr/oht50/drowning.pdf

Oregon has the tenth highest drowning rate among all states.
More than 200 Oregonians drowned during 1995-1997.
In that '95-'98 sample, 37% were drownings in a river.
(note this isn't breaking out the Columbia, and also doesn't include WA drownings).

Males much more likely than females. (by 4:1?)
fairly well distributed across ages 0-85+ but spikes at 1-4 and 15-19.

NY has the lowest rate of drowning.

28 visitors to Oregon drowned during the same period (half from WA)

Also, we don't know if there have been any "unidentified" bodies over time.

[georger 268]

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worrying about no body found in the Columbia is pointless.

It assumes, for instance, that all other drowning victims in the Columbia have been found.

They haven't been.

Reply>
In fact, except in the back areas, the Columbia is so
large with such powerful currents, one could expect
evidence to wash away quickly, not to mention the
additional factor of currents in floods which occur like
clockwork on this river. (The clean condition of the
bottom from the video snaps posted is further
confirming evidence.) In this light, the Tina Bar
money find may be exceptional.

• Quote

[skyjack71 0]

Most know about the sighting of a body by a kid that was never found or verified - by the way they were looking for Cooper.

There is even a story about a kid who claimed to have found a chute on an Island up toward Washougal.
Again no one ever saw this except the kid.

I am not saying they didn't see these things - but, they were not there when others went back to look.

When I was a child there was an old house we were not supposed to go near. We (3 of us) found out one day why and we were scared to death. The men must have heard us when we took off because when my father went over to check it out - no one was there. Probably vagrants, who took off after we scurried away, but no evidence of their having been there was left.

Truth or fiction?

Children raised on farms and in rural areas in the 40's through the 70's usually have stories like this to tell.

Regarding Cooper: With so many people looking for so many yrs one would expect a bone or part of the chute or rig to have been found....yet, NOTHING except the one find of money in 1980.

We are talking a major crime - not a random drowning - the Columbia was well observed for yrs after the crime and even more so after the find of the money.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 268]

Regarding Cooper: With so many people looking for so many yrs one would expect a bone or part of the chute or rig to have been found....yet, NOTHING except the one find of money in 1980.

We are talking a major crime - not a random drowning - the Columbia was well observed for yrs after the crime and even more so after the find of the money.

[snowmman 3]

It's pretty easy to search for drownings in the Columbia where they don't find the body right away, or unidentified bodies. They seem to now find them within a week, and ID the unidentified bodies pretty quick.

Here's a recent one in 1997 where I can't find a report of the body found.
Pasco is much farther up the Columbia.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1997/9706050036.asp

There seems to be a stream of suicide jumpers off the I-5 bridge between Portland/Vancouver, over the years.

It's a pain checking all of the "not immediately found" stories. but here's some more where bodies are not immediately recovered. Not all Columbia.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1988/8801260316.asp
[url]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1997/9701020037.asp
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1994/9403250029.asp
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008030199_webjump02m.html
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970608&slug=2543567

Regardless of Jo's prognostications about the triviality of "random drownings" vs "major crimes" (I have no idea what she meant) or her knowledge of the amount of searching done (I have no idea what she meant)...

the reality is: we have no data on what percentage of drowning victims in the area we're interested in, are never found. It would be interesting to know.

Especially any I-5 suicide jumpers, since it's the right area. I remember one (recent) was found all the way up the river by Longview? There's a "Joe Patterson" back in 1977. Don't know if his body was found. (a photographer took his picture as he jumped, actually).

(edit) Maybe the picture of Joe jumping to his death will shock Jo to her senses. Any death is important to someone. This is the I-5 bridge.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TO4LAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vlkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4203,18962

[Orange1 0]

Yeah and I don't get all the "oooh gross" response either. 377 asked a valid question that affects whether or not a drowned body would be found.

Regardless of the specifics, let's not forget that the subject of this thread is crime and criminals generally hurt people, with generally "gross" results. Maybe the Cooper case didn't result in a death of a victim - though the descriptions of what happened to Mucklow and Schaffner afterwards certainly indicate deep trauma and thus this is not a "victimless" crime by any means - i wonder if a quick death followed by a "gross" decomposition is really worse than lifelong trauma, even if the description of that is just very sad rather than "gross".

As for the search stuff... we've been over all this before. How long did it take them to find Steve Fossett, and they knew pretty much exactly where to look?? Also ref what I posted above about that guy in the lake - again they knew exactly where to look and it still took 5 years, and chance, before they found him.
As Georger rightly pointed out they were not looking at the Columbia originally, and by the time the money was found any evidence of a body could be long gone (no-one answered me about crawfish or other scavengers?).

I would also not be so quick to dismiss the kid - sure maybe it was his imagination, but maybe it was a body. With the resinking, currents etc, he may well have seen something that wasn't there anymore when people went back to look. Who's to say? (anyway... there are a number of other pieces of "evidence" (not) that seem little more than figments of the imagination that have been presented here that we are implored to take seriously. so why not this one just because it doesn't suit someone?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

ok, if there are rules for crawfish fishing in the Columbia, I guess there are crawfish.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-52-060

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

I was thinking about the nylon scrap Blake Payne recovered per Tosaw.

image is attached.

While it's apparently not related, it does provide an example of a scrap of nylon that was sitting on the bottom of the Columbia in the area, for some unknown amount of time.

original caption (from corbis)
"Portland, Oregon: Blake Payne stands in stern of his charter boat late December 18th, and holds up what he thinks is a piece of "D.B. Cooper's" parachute. Payne has been dragging the bottom of the Columbia River for the past month and a half, looking for evidence that "Cooper," did land in the Columbia after parachuting from hijacked airliner. On the stern is "rake," Payne designed to drag the bottom of the river."


It is also possible that Blake Payne may be related to Cooper. Since his father could have been named Max Payne, and that sounds faintly criminal. And, he is wearing a funny looking hat, that could be a modified paratrooper's beret? :)

(edit) They apparently didn't find much, which might also confirm that the Columbia river bottom is relatively clean.

[georger 268]

  Quote

I was thinking about the nylon scrap Blake Payne recovered per Tosaw.

image is attached.

While it's apparently not related, it does provide an example of a scrap of nylon that was sitting on the bottom of the Columbia in the area, for some unknown amount of time.

original caption (from corbis)
"Portland, Oregon: Blake Payne stands in stern of his charter boat late December 18th, and holds up what he thinks is a piece of "D.B. Cooper's" parachute. Payne has been dragging the bottom of the Columbia River for the past month and a half, looking for evidence that "Cooper," did land in the Columbia after parachuting from hijacked airliner. On the stern is "rake," Payne designed to drag the bottom of the river."


It is also possible that Blake Payne may be related to Cooper. Since his father could have been named Max Payne, and that sounds faintly criminal. And, he is wearing a funny looking hat, that could be a modified paratrooper's beret? :)

(edit) They apparently didn't find much, which might also confirm that the Columbia river bottom is relatively clean.

Given a relatively cleaner than expected bottom, the
finding of this small piece of nylon may imply that
if anything was there to be found, it was likely found?
Too bad Tosaw has not used vid cams in his searches!
Sounds like he's a hook and drag-net kind of guy. He
did use scuba divers but they didnt photograph either?.

On the evening of 11-24 (in the rain) few people
would have been out milling around on the river, I would imagine. The next day and after many people
out and about, and nothing noticed except for the kid and his tall tale of a man and a parachute hanging in
a dead tree (I like the "dead" tree part!). The father
calls "we must go home" and nothing is done. How many parachutes and dead guys does the average
kid see in a day, or tell his father about, following
right after DB Cooper hijacks a plane and jumps
somewhere? Humans are everywhere and refusing to go anywhere, all at once! I have never been able to resolve this contradiction about the human condition,
not even with the help of Kanzantzakis. Its all mush
to me.

[nitrochute 2]

what year was this found? it does look somwhat like ripstop nylon as to the multiple "pulls (or runs)" in the fabric adjacent t where it was ripped away from whatever it was.also is that LONG piece that goes to the ground a piece of seam?

[snowmman 3]

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what year was this found? it does look somwhat like ripstop nylon as to the multiple "pulls (or runs)" in the fabric adjacent t where it was ripped away from whatever it was.also is that LONG piece that goes to the ground a piece of seam?

Hi, nitrochute. I didn't notice that the caption didn't have the year.
It was Dec 18, 1982 (the photo is on the corbis site at
http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isg&mediauid={8497AA25-A504-449F-AD0F-AF934C0FF259}

at the time, Tosaw mistakenly called it a pilot chute?
I think

I just read a 1985 account that said Cooper had put the money in a nylon bag around his waist. But I guess we know that's not true.

I thought I remember Cossey dismissing it like it was a G.I. Joe parachute or something like that. Maybe I'm misremembering.

But it doesn't look like any of that, does it?

I guess I'm not really clear on how it was dismissed.

but yeah maybe it's a piece of ripstop from a tent or a tent fly or something.

(edit) I found an article in 1988 where it was still being referred to as a pilot chute.

[snowmman 3]

weird.
in April 2008, Cossey repeated the "pilot chute" idea to a reporter here. Did he see it, or was he just repeating what he had heard? The reporter is saying Cossey couldn't remember the date?

"Cossey has been through the drill before; this is the third time the FBI has asked him to examine parachutes to see whether they might have been Cooper’s.

One chute found long ago — he couldn’t remember when — was just a “pilot chute,” used to pull the main chute out of the pack. The other time, in 1988, it was a parachute found by a Columbia River diver seeking clues to Cooper’s fate.

“They keep bringing me garbage,” Cossey said. “Every time they find squat, they bring it out and open their trunk and say, ’Is that it?’ and I say, ’Nope, go away.’ Then a few years later they come back.”"

full article at
http://www.enewscourier.com/statenews/local_story_093112109.html

[georger 268]

  Quote

weird.
in April 2008, Cossey repeated the "pilot chute" idea to a reporter here. Did he see it, or was he just repeating what he had heard? The reporter is saying Cossey couldn't remember the date?

"Cossey has been through the drill before; this is the third time the FBI has asked him to examine parachutes to see whether they might have been Cooper’s.

One chute found long ago — he couldn’t remember when — was just a “pilot chute,” used to pull the main chute out of the pack. The other time, in 1988, it was a parachute found by a Columbia River diver seeking clues to Cooper’s fate.

“They keep bringing me garbage,” Cossey said. “Every time they find squat, they bring it out and open their trunk and say, ’Is that it?’ and I say, ’Nope, go away.’ Then a few years later they come back.”"

full article at
http://www.enewscourier.com/statenews/local_story_093112109.html

There have been a few people who posted (months ago) claiming to know Cossey. I read their posts with
interest. I believe one or more of these people was
credible. For example, these people would not reply to my questions or give me the time of day - and I took some amusement and reassurance from that. It added to their credibility, from my perspective, for why should some outsider be granted credibility in a closed circle of associates, based on what?

I believe Cossey has feelings in this matter. I believe he also has credibility. I think people should
leave it at that because fundamentally what else can
any outsider do?

Without Cossey it would have been a mess on the
ground at SEA.

[skyjack71 0]

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Yeah and I don't get all the "oooh gross" response either.

It was just an innocent response - not meant to be derogatory. I thought what you wrote was VERY intersting.

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Maybe the Cooper case didn't result in a death of a victim - though the descriptions of what happened to Mucklow and Schaffner afterwards certainly indicate deep trauma and thus this is not a "victimless" crime by any means - i wonder if a quick death followed by a "gross" decomposition is really worse than lifelong trauma, even if the description of that is just very sad rather than "gross".

There is absolutely NO reason to BASH me. I am the one who brought up and defended what happened to Tina when some jerk maintained "other" things happening. This was a life altering experience for those stewardesses and the rest of the crew that remained on that plane. You are making an awful lot out of a remark about what a grandchild would say.

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I would also not be so quick to dismiss the kid - sure maybe it was his imagination, but maybe it was a body.

I was NOT dismissing the child - just pointing out that children have vivid imaginations. I was looking at both sides of the coin.

Why is that the rest of you can disuss pros and cons but if I make one post looking at the other side of the coin - it becomes jump on Jo time? Rather than BASH me just ignore me okay.

I have had a LIFE altering experience also - because there seems to be no explanation by the FBI as to my husbands confession or past. My experience has lasted 13 yrs not 3 hours - it has destroyed my health - I can't put it behind me anymore than some of can put your own questions and curiousities behind you.

For just one time - someone needs to put themselves in my shoes - What if is was anyone of you who had a spouse who confessed to a horrible crime and if you were a very righeous person, you would want to see justice served - and do everything in you power to see it done.

I know what I saw and what he said and that the sequence of events could not have happened if he was not Cooper. I have NEVER taken a red cent from this story not one - so money is bot the motivation nor is 15 minutes of fame - it took me 5 yrs to go public and several months to discuss it with anyone other than a couple of close friend - AFTER I found out who DAN Cooper was.

I have never sought anything other than the truth - and believing that you do the crime - you do the time. I want to see this end, but NOT with the lies that the FBI told and more than one AGENT has LIED. You cannot dismiss a suspect in 1998 when you had never done anymore than a cursory look. That FBI agent was so full of himself that he didn't know Duane had been to McNeil and claimed Duane was NEVER in the army and that the serial number belonged to Wavy Greene.

I am on the other end of the phone in 2000 when I confronted him with papers in my hands that proved otherwise. If they screwed up that bad and a ordinary citizen with the help of a couple of investigative reporters proves the agent was in left feld somewere - there is a serioius flaw in the system and it needs to be addressed and fixed - or was the deception DELiBERATE?

Only time will tell and that is not too far away.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

There's been a couple of Cooper-related fiction books over the years that we've not mentioned here. Basically they just make reference to the Cooper saga, and tie it into their mystery-related story line somehow.

Just noticed there was another new one on 11/21/08
(there were a couple last year, heh?)

http://www.amazon.com/UNDER-SUSPICION-Legend-D-B-Cooper/dp/1440450358/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product


UNDER SUSPICION: The Legend of D.B. Cooper (Paperback)
by James Olszewski (Author)

394 pages


Two men on the same side of the law-with two different objectives. While investigating the same case, the situation turns deadly. Jim Harper has been Sheriff of Lewis County for three decades. But when a drug investigation shatters the harmony of his County, he finds his community questioning his abilities. Alan Bradley is a hard driving Special Agent of the Drug Enforcement Agency. A tip leads Bradley to Lewis County where he suspects a drug dealer is hiding. The Phantom file is a mysterious case on the DEA dockets, and solving it would make Bradley a hero. Problems arise, which lead to mistakes and he finds himself unprepared. In order to preserve his credibility, he spin doctors the situation. He resurrects a ghost from Lewis County's past-D.B. Cooper! The public's reaction to the story of this hijacker couldn't be predicted as everyone is caught up in its wake. They clash but there can only be one winner, and it'll be at the expense of the other. Who will find that truth first?

[nitrochute 2]

i wish we could get cossey on this forum.

[Orange1 0]

Jo, just to check something - you have Duane's record of army service but not his record in the Navy?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.