DB Cooper

[georger 265]

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377...have you looked at the photo? It can't possibly prove anything... you can't see nearly enough! (Or can you identify from an ear? Serious question)

Reply>
Be patient.

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[snowmman 3]

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MD 88 isn't a 727, it is essentially a modernized stretched DC 9, twin engined jet.

377

ah thanks 377. I used to search more before I would say anything, but don't give it as much effort now.
Maybe that explains why the fabric side walls aren't in the md-88 pic but are in the 727 pic.
I'm not totally confident it was a md-88. here's another pic from the same place that shows the outside, maybe you can ID it as md-88 rather than 727.

I had commented before that it was hard to find pics of all the planes with rear stairs, so maybe this post isn't a waste.

I thought the history was that not all DC-9's had the rear stairs? That one guy who went out the back of a DC-9...they talked about the exit being "little used" and I always wondered if it was a smaller exit than the 727...but these pics seem to be about the same size as the 727 stairs...the md-88 was later though as you say. Don't think I have a good dc-9 rear airstair photo

377: can you confirm this looks like a md-88?

(edit) in fact, now that I look at it, it's obvious because of the stair tread height that the lower stairs must fold down??? is that correct?

(edit) another different md-88 (apparent?) pic added

[snowmman 3]

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377...have you looked at the photo? It can't possibly prove anything... you can't see nearly enough! (Or can you identify from an ear? Serious question)

Reply>
Be patient.

it's weird that the picture is wrapped in plastic.
What I don't like is that Jo seems to let hang in the air the speculation that the water or ?? damage may have happened related to our event?

Jo: you said the water damage happened while the photo was in your possession? is that correct?

Why is there plastic on the photo?

Sluggo: isn't what you say insane? Grab hold of yourself. There is no sliver of anything that would connect the possibilities you suggest. All it would show would be that you connect two random things with some degree of probability given a misuse of technology..i.e. it's easy to con people.

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[snowmman 3]

orange1 mused:

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mother Edna were LDS. ...Is Chevron Man maybe just Zona's stepfather...?

The scriptwriters are going nuts here trying to keep up, and are threatening a strike.

I've tried to tell them that it's a must-have that the money turns out to be counterfeit, and that there was a switch made when the money was being delivered to Cooper....i.e. the bank guy got the money.

But they won't go with that. They want to put Dunbar in a parachute.

[Orange1 0]

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But, I do see a pattern here. I don't see that Jo is doing Tina Mucklow any favour by bringing all
of this up now (all over again)! Who is this serving?
That is the question that matters.

That is a good point; we know (from Jo herself) that she has been desperate to talk to Tina.

from http://www.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/history_of_flight/68846

This is old, but still of interest - see what Jo says (bolded), I wonder Jo would you still keep it silent if Tina agreed to talk to you?

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Sep 30, 2002 10:06 PM
» homes4ubyjo - Update from Ms. Cooper

I have moved from Pace, but am still actively seeking the truth. I sent a reply to Swedie but do not expect anything out of it. I am still seeking Tina Mucklow and my $100 reward stands on that. If anyone knows her and can get her to contact me and she will meet with me in privacy and I vow to keep all she tells me silent. She and only she can help me find some peace. She is a woman of God and surely if she knew that I needed to speak to her she would help me. I will have to ask her to remember some things I am sure she would like to forget, but these are the clues that I keep secret. Please help me find her and arrange a meeting. I also need someone to write my story before I can no longer tell it...time is going by very quickly and one day it will be my own obituary that is being read. I desperately need to find answers! Anyone thinking they might have know Duane or John Collins please contact me for other places he may have been and photos. I know enough about his history to be able to sort the cons from those who are for real. Any one knowing or thinking they may have met him in the Ks or Mn area in the 60's...this is very important because this is when he learned to jump and someone out there knows him but do not realize it.

Jo also seemed pretty sure that Duane knew how to jump but presumably has still been unsuccessful in finding anyone to corroborate this.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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orange1 mused:

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mother Edna were LDS. ...Is Chevron Man maybe just Zona's stepfather...?

The scriptwriters are going nuts here trying to keep up, and are threatening a strike.

Just to be clear: there could be a million reasons Duane wanted a photo of Chevron Man, none of them having anything to do with DB Cooper.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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orange1 mused:

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mother Edna were LDS. ...Is Chevron Man maybe just Zona's stepfather...?

The scriptwriters are going nuts here trying to keep up, and are threatening a strike.

Just to be clear: there could be a million reasons Duane wanted a photo of Chevron Man, none of them having anything to do with DB Cooper.

Orange1, I thought your random guess was actually brilliant. It hadn't occured to me.

It does make sense that maybe some of the odd behaviors in Duane's life are connected to pieces of his past that Jo doesn't have detail on, but Duane did.

i.e. not hijack, but past wives, especially if there's a child.

How did Duane get away with no child support? did Zona's mom just blow him off and never contact him? I would think it likely she remarried.

[georger 265]

How did Duane get away with no child support? did Zona's mom just blow him off and never contact him? I would think it likely she remarried.

[snowmman 3]

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Is your answering bot on 24 hrs a day?

yes.

Here's a secret learned from the early days of email. Whether you use email or post to a forum, use a tool to randomly delay the message. Good to get the boss thinking you're working late. Also that way people can't tell where in the planet you are. Just a small extension to automate the text content also.

The sun is always shining on the DBC thread, somewhere.

"“Nothing is softer or more flexible than water, yet nothing can resist it”
-Chuang Tzu

[georger 265]

Boy or Girl ?

Put your bets in now, before the restoration
is done.

[snowmman 3]

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Boy or Girl ?

Put your bets in now, before the restoration
is done.

good point Georger. I was thinking boy when I first saw it too.

I had shorts with those kind of built-in suspenders in some b/w pics of me when I was about that age.

not uncommon?

[Orange1 0]

I honestly can't tell. I can't even see enough detail to see if the hair is short, or long hair tied back.
The "suspenders" could also be from a skirt - i had skirts like that when I was a kid (usually plaid IIRC). Of course I was probably a kid long after Zona was a kid.
Doesn't have to be Duane's kid either. Our old family photos include plenty of my cousins, family friends etc.
If it was a "precious" photo, such as of a kid - why so badly looked after?

Edited to add - look under the ear. Do those look like wisps of hair? Then long hair tied back rather than short hair.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Okay I allocated 15 minutes to doing a photoshop touch up.

I realized you could make the picture anything you wanted, but I tried to stay disciplined and only mess with trying to expose what was there, not add in any idea of what someone might want.

One significant thing is that there was a right eyeball that had shifting up, I think separated with the water damage. I selected that out as a layer and shifted it to where I thought the eye should be.

I went to b/w since there was no good info from color.

The plastic highlights are a pain. I got rid of some of them, but doing anything more aggressive loses other detail.
Attached is what I got.

saying it could be duane, might not be wrong.

(edit) one thing I made sure was to not use eraser/paint brush to draw outlines where I "thought" they should be. I used the magic lasso exclusively, till the end where i cleaned up some stuff down around the body, just cause the ragged edges were distracting

(edit) orange pointed out:
"Do those look like wisps of hair? Then long hair tied back rather than short hair. "
I suppose we would need to revisit the younger Duane photos...but remember his hair was always funky in the pics...i.e. not straight.

[georger 265]

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Okay I allocated 15 minutes to doing a photoshop touch up.

I realized you could make the picture anything you wanted, but I tried to stay disciplined and only mess with trying to expose what was there, not add in any idea of what someone might want.

One significant thing is that there was a right eyeball that had shifting up, I think separated with the water damage. I selected that out as a layer and shifted it to where I thought the eye should be.

I went to b/w since there was no good info from color.

The plastic highlights are a pain. I got rid of some of them, but doing anything more aggressive loses other detail.
Attached is what I got.

saying it could be duane, might not be wrong.

(edit) one thing I made sure was to not use eraser/paint brush to draw outlines where I "thought" they should be. I used the magic lasso exclusively, till the end where i cleaned up some stuff down around the body, just cause the ragged edges were distracting

(edit) orange pointed out:
"Do those look like wisps of hair? Then long hair tied back rather than short hair. "
I suppose we would need to revisit the younger Duane photos...but remember his hair was always funky in the pics...i.e. not straight.

I will post this without comment - the task is to figure out whose ears are what. Basic ear structure
does not change much over a lifetime except for the
addition of fat.

Other information is pending -

Georger

[377 22]

Jo,

I have come to your defense when you are accused of wasting people's time. This photo tease is making me look dumb.

Who does the photo depict? Where did it come from?
How will it prove Duane was on the plane?

I can only conclude that you believe the photo was given to Cooper on the plane. Sluggo seems to be drawing the same conclusion. That would be a truly extraordinary claim and would require extraordinary proof.

Please tell us what you know so people don't waste time speculating.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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Quote

MD 88 isn't a 727, it is essentially a modernized stretched DC 9, twin engined jet.

377

ah thanks 377. I used to search more before I would say anything, but don't give it as much effort now.
Maybe that explains why the fabric side walls aren't in the md-88 pic but are in the 727 pic.
I'm not totally confident it was a md-88. here's another pic from the same place that shows the outside, maybe you can ID it as md-88 rather than 727.

I had commented before that it was hard to find pics of all the planes with rear stairs, so maybe this post isn't a waste.

I thought the history was that not all DC-9's had the rear stairs? That one guy who went out the back of a DC-9...they talked about the exit being "little used" and I always wondered if it was a smaller exit than the 727...but these pics seem to be about the same size as the 727 stairs...the md-88 was later though as you say. Don't think I have a good dc-9 rear airstair photo

377: can you confirm this looks like a md-88?

(edit) in fact, now that I look at it, it's obvious because of the stair tread height that the lower stairs must fold down??? is that correct?

(edit) another different md-88 (apparent?) pic added

Snow,

I don't know the answers to your questions but I will see what I can find. My only experience with Douglas airstairs were on the DC 9-21 I jumped at WFFC 2006. The actual stairs had been removed to leave a sheet metal lined ramp for quick mass exits.

Was it ever positively confirmed that the Cooper plane landed in Reno with the door placard missing? I just want to be sure we can reasonably rely on the found placard to establish the flight path.

Those fortunate enough to have jumped the 727 at WFFC in Quincy before it stopped coming should have a lot of photos of the rear exit.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Jo,

I have come to your defense when you are accused of wasting people's time. This photo tease is making me look dumb.

Who does the photo depict? Where did it come from?
How will it prove Duane was on the plane?

I can only conclude that you believe the photo was given to Cooper on the plane. Sluggo seems to be drawing the same conclusion. That would be a truly extraordinary claim and would require extraordinary proof.

Please tell us what you know so people don't waste time speculating.

377

actually 377, it think of like watching a movie.

Would you have predicted one of the main characters would pull a plastic-covered, water damaged 50+ year old photo out of their pocket, where all features are obscured except for one ear, and throw it down on the table, saying "Here!, here's the proof you need. Now you you believe me? Now do you believe the aliens were on board?"

.....and then at that moment the aliens burst thru the wall, and everyone turns and someone opens up with the M240A1 Incinerator Unit.

...okay maybe not the last part. More likely Ripley would have a M41A1 Pulse Rifle.

[snowmman 3]

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Those fortunate enough to have jumped the 727 at WFFC in Quincy before it stopped coming should have a lot of photos of the rear exit.

I thought we've posted those pics before. I know I had found some. The stairs were removed if I remember right?

[georger 265]

Was it ever positively confirmed that the Cooper plane landed in Reno with the door placard missing? I just want to be sure we can reasonably rely on the found placard to establish the flight path.


377

Yes, confirmed. Without revealing people's proprietary 'stuff' the placard sits/sat
right on the fp. This has been pretty well confirmed
three different ways as little as several months ago -
ok? (smile)

Also - had a very difficult time getting people
today to finish inquiries - national holiday -
Im waiting replies - Ckret was probably PM'd on
one thing I sent out so he knows whats going on -
tomorrow another holiday ........... these things
always hit when everyone is out having fun. Just
us mice minding the store
By the by, no matter how this turns out if sure wont
be any reflection on you, at least not in my book!
I think this is universal.

73 & 88 G.

[377 22]

Georger's numeric sign offs are Morse Code shorthand. It is amazing how many of the serious posters on this forum hold FCC ham radio licenses. Haven't figured out why there is such a high correlation. Duane was a CBer, but that doesn't count.

If Cooper were a skydiver or military jumper or aircrew he'd likely have known about VHF AM radio comms with the plane and how easy it would have been to intercept them. It would have given him much useful info, including advance warning of any planned ambush, refuel delays, info on chase planes if the info was given to the NWA pilots, etc.

Jo, still waiting for your info on the child photo.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

and it didn't cost me a dime..

...I did a little facegen from the Lost Boy photo.
You can see there are some facial relationships...chin line, nose/eye/chin/ear distances that you can get from the photo sort of.

I didn't really get it that good, and the face is a little older, but it's interesting to compare.

.....

So we drilled it out so that he would fit
And with a little bit of help with a surgeon's kit
We had that hijacker runnin' just like a song
Now the eyeballs were another sight
We had two on the left and one on the right
But when we pulled on the ears all three of 'em opened up.

Now up to now my plan went all right
Till we tried to put Duane together one night
And that's when we noticed that something was definitely wrong.
The wife was from the seventies, the daughter from '45
And when we tried to put the chute on, the holes were all wrong.

-The Real Man In Black

[377 22]

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Those fortunate enough to have jumped the 727 at WFFC in Quincy before it stopped coming should have a lot of photos of the rear exit.

I thought we've posted those pics before. I know I had found some. The stairs were removed if I remember right?

I was told that the WFFC 727 had the stairs removed but never saw it first hand. There are shots of it doing a gear up low pass over the WFFC DZ that depict an amazing buzz job... very LOW.

I no longer like or encourage low passes by jumpships after having seen one go horribly wrong.
I had just jumped out of the plane described in the link below and watched a friend (pilot/jumper John Lewis) die in the crash. I still have bad dreams about it.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=67768&key=0

Glad to see Georger hanging in there through all the noise and entropy.

Got a good laugh out of Snow's words about the forum being an immortal unkillable thing.

And Sluggo, come on in, the water is... well, it doesnt meet federal standards, but with some massive doses of chlorine and luck...

We need Zing and Guru back in the mix.

Don't leave, it's a bit nippy outside but the band is still playing in the promenade deck. This ship is unsinkable, says so right in the brochure.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

You guys are a hoot! Is this an episode of “Ghost Hunters”? If so, here’s a photo for you [attached].

See that settles it… the ears are a perfect match!

Sluggo_Monster (Live from “The Ranch”)

PS: I’ll be here all week…. And be sure to tip your waiter or waitress.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

okay, i've made some headway.
Went the female way on the face construction, and got the attached. Call her "DZ girl"
Initally thought "Little Tina" sure, but running thru all the posts on DZ.com about skydiving, and it points to this "DZ girl" profile.

Some kind of story about how she ran away at 19, hooked up with a guy in a trailer at some DZ in Indiana, dumped him when winter hit and headed west. etc. Eventually ended up being connected with the hijacking. Kinda sad. Cause she didn't get her cut of the loot.

Or maybe more like this?

DZ girl came from Pensacola, F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the USA
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She says, Hey babe
Take a walk on the wild side

Duane is just speeding away
Thought she was James Dean for a day
Then I guess he had to crash
A hijacking would have helped that bash
Said, Hey babe,
Take a walk on the wild side

[georger 265]

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Georger's numeric sign offs are Morse Code shorthand. It is amazing how many of the serious posters on this forum hold FCC ham radio licenses. Haven't figured out why there is such a high correlation. Duane was a CBer, but that doesn't count.

REPLY: i LOVE IT! Dont ever ask about no-code.
You know where I am on that.

If Cooper were a skydiver or military jumper or aircrew he'd likely have known about VHF AM radio comms with the plane and how easy it would have been to intercept them. It would have given him much useful info, including advance warning of any planned ambush, refuel delays, info on chase planes if the info was given to the NWA pilots, etc.

Jo, still waiting for your info on the child photo.

377