DB Cooper

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Right, the odds of the money being recognized in circulation were figured out a while back, and were really small. If the money wasn't spent or deposited in a lump sum, the chance of getting caught is almost zero. It is quite possible that the money went through the system and was worn out and destroyed.

Given the deteriorated condition, I speculated that the money was "stashed" somewhere (improperly) and dumped somehow so that it ended up at Tena Bar. More of it may have been damaged, but didn't end up at Tena Bar, or not. This is pure speculation. But at least it is on topic.Tom K may have information that supports this. Or he may blow it completely apart.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Orange1 0]

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Anyone who had the money takes it over the border and exchanges it in smaller doses for Canadian money. Put in a safety deposit box. Retrieve later.

Any checking of money is done manually.
This is 1971, not 2008 with computers.

Don't forget the OR - or he takes it back to Asia, or Africa, or somewhere else where dollars are used and tend to stay there...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 268]

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Georger, this (the bolded bit) is what I (and Jo) refer to:

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Just the tip of the iceberg, I would imagine.
I mean you and Duane's behavior. Sinister. Two
morons running around doing cloak-n-dagger. Did
it ever occur to you, you might be arrested or at
least questioned and placed on a list?

And shouldn't the real DB Cooper be in hiding
vs out snooping around taking clandestine photos
of CIA people in public, in broad daylite!?

This "Cooper" (Duane and Jo Snooper Industries)
can operate overt and covert without risk or fear
of detection, in spite of the fact one of them is
one of the most sought out criminals on the
planet and on the FBI's top ten list! All in Sault
Lake City no less, where people are rather sensitive
to being watched and photographed ( a relative of
mine for example, who was in adminstraton at the
major Bell Telephone complex there)! ............

I took it as irony, Jo appears to insist that you have postively identified someone as a CIA agent and thus yourself must work for a govt agency.

I meant it as irony-sarcasm, just as you say.
That we are spending time on this at all is what I
wonder about.

Did we all come here to dicuss Jo Weber or DB
Cooper?

Now, if you look at Jo's photo of the UNKNOWN
official which started this morass, the title of the photo reads: BEFORE HAIR TRANSPLANT. So, Jo photographed some complete stranger for Duane who she now is trying to connect to the CIA or FBI, "before his hair transplant"?

How do you photograph a complete stranger you
see once and never again, "Before the hair transplant"?

And you wonder why Ckret is not going to spend
time here or the forum has not lived up to its
potential as an investigative tool?

Photo attached -

[skyjack71 0]

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What ever happened to the night clerk? Jo, did he actually get interviewed by the FBI? If so was it by phone or in person? I know the answer is somewhere back in the forum archives but I cant find it.

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Yes, he went into the FBI office in-person and gave them a notarized statement. It is my understanding that Agent Carr did call him and ask him some questions.

I got upset with Carrs because he was in the forum at that time and refers back to a statement about having looked for the hotel registration. HIS post was BEFORE the night clerk went into the FBI office. In the night clerks statement he provided the pertinent information about the hotel.

The night clerk is still in the states - but it is the JOB of the FBI to investigate his statement - NOT me. ALL I know is what I was told - I do not have ACCESS to the FBI records to investigate his claim.

Let the night clerk in the evidence room - He will find it because he KNOWs what he is looking for.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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I got upset with Carrs because he was in the forum at that time and refers back to a statement about having looked for the hotel registration. HIS post was BEFORE the night clerk went into the FBI office. In the night clerks statement he provided the pertinent information about the hotel.

Perhaps you should get un-upset with Carr. His statement that he could find no FBI records of the FBI having taken the registration records at the time won't change just because someone (whose story they may or may not be able to trust/verify), came in decades later and said they did...

I'm beginning to think Carr was simply being the ultimate rational person by leaving this forum

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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I'm beginning to think Carr was simply being the ultimate rational person by leaving this forum

On the one hand that sounds logical, but remember Carr was the ultimate irrational person for his plan on how he was going to find Cooper. There was no rational reason why any of his actions would help find Cooper in 2008.

I think Cooper was the most rational person.

[Orange1 0]

Nothing else had found Cooper, and it wasn't a high priority (or any priority actually) for the FBI, so I don't think Carr's method was irrational at all ... "we have no resources to throw at this case so let's open it up to the public again".

It wouldn't be the first time the FBI has found a criminal after a couple of decades - what about that woman who was part of a terrorism group in the 70s (i think it was) who got discovered living quietly as a suburban housewife recently? I can't remember all the details of that case, but I'm sure she wasn't found because the FBI reopened and launched a full scale investigation...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 268]

Let the night clerk in the evidence room - He will find it because he KNOWs what he is looking for.

Aren't you really saying: LET ME IN THE EVIDENCE ROOM.

That will never-ever happen.

Tell this group what you told me in your PM.

Jo apparently has a reason for wanting in the Evidence Room. A production company is interested?
There's an opportunity for you Snowmman. You
can work both sides of the fence.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Nothing else had found Cooper, and it wasn't a high priority (or any priority actually) for the FBI, so I don't think Carr's method was irrational at all ... "we have no resources to throw at this case so let's open it up to the public again".

It wouldn't be the first time the FBI has found a criminal after a couple of decades - what about that woman who was part of a terrorism group in the 70s (i think it was) who got discovered living quietly as a suburban housewife recently? I can't remember all the details of that case, but I'm sure she wasn't found because the FBI reopened and launched a full scale investigation...

Kathleen Soliah, aka Sara Jane Olsen. Involved in a bombing incident in San Fran. She was part of the SLA (the group that kidnapped Patty Hearst). She was found in Minnestoa because of the TV show "America's Most Wanted". They have helped identify and catch a lot of people. Google her name for a lot more info.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[snowmman 3]

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Nothing else had found Cooper, and it wasn't a high priority (or any priority actually) for the FBI, so I don't think Carr's method was irrational at all ... "we have no resources to throw at this case so let's open it up to the public again".

That "open it to the public" is an illusion.

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea. I'm saying the way he did it was a bad plan.

Here's the way to think of it. Assume the goal is to find Cooper and you want to open it to the public, with a fixed amount of resources. Were Carr's actions that best that could be done?

That's all I'm saying. Carr's a fine guy, I'm sure, but you were touting him as an example of rational, and that's not clear to me. He's just another guy, like us, irrational etc. I know I'm irrational. Everyone is in different areas/degrees.

There's not much we're sure of. Even for example the "one-minute-off" thing. There's a set of assumptions that go into the "one-minute-off" analysis being correct, as opposed to "one-minute-off" being wrong, and the initial stuff being correct. (Test: in your mind, summarize the theory behind the one-minute-off idea...you have to make a statement about what the data looked like when drawing the flight path on the Carr map..i.e. pairs of time/positions, or one time, and sequential positions at one minute intervals, or ???)

In terms of other random things, I've even seen news articles claiming 8:13 as being some important time, with jump a few minutes after that. So things like saying 8:15 was the probable jump point, may have been said way before.

Half of me thinks everything we've discussed, was already in the FBI files, and Carr was just stringing us along.

[377 22]

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Nothing else had found Cooper, and it wasn't a high priority (or any priority actually) for the FBI, so I don't think Carr's method was irrational at all ... "we have no resources to throw at this case so let's open it up to the public again".

It wouldn't be the first time the FBI has found a criminal after a couple of decades - what about that woman who was part of a terrorism group in the 70s (i think it was) who got discovered living quietly as a suburban housewife recently? I can't remember all the details of that case, but I'm sure she wasn't found because the FBI reopened and launched a full scale investigation...

Kathleen Soliah, aka Sara Jane Olsen. Involved in a bombing incident in San Fran. She was part of the SLA (the group that kidnapped Patty Hearst). She was found in Minnestoa because of the TV show "America's Most Wanted". They have helped identify and catch a lot of people. Google her name for a lot more info.

Several other SLA members went back to jail after having served time and living normal lives. Family pressure from the Opsahl family reopened an unsolved Carmichael CA bank robbery case
in which Myrna Opsahl was killed. Even though the 1975 case was stone cold, new evidence was found resulting in murder charges being filed in 2002. Guilty pleas were entered and the defendants are serving time.

You just never can tell when something new can turn up and solve a case that has been cold for decades.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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There's an opportunity for you Snowmman. You
can work both sides of the fence.

Nah..it's like the Alaskan gold rush. Best way to make money was to be the guy selling shovels.

Instead of working both sides of the fence, I want to be the guy who sells fencing.

Kind of the arms dealer in the arms race.

Have you ever looked at any historical stuff on barbed wire in the west and all the permutations. Fascinating. Barbed wire was a big deal. There are people who collect all the historical variations.

[happythoughts 0]

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You just never can tell when something new can turn up and solve a case that has been cold for decades.

A lot of the solved cases involve a lot more personal details
that the general public can work from.
Bank robbers may be local, and mention that they lived in an area
during a certain period.
There are pictures with more clarity.
Other life-details come out.
Survival of the suspect after the crime.

For DBC, we have none of this type of information.

The best hope falls into an admission, but that would be foolhardy as it means jail time. Most admissions are the
attention-grabbing wannabees or wackos who think they are.

Most of the admissions seem to come from surviving relations
who have no physical evidence, just "I said so".

If DBC was a bourbon-drinking smoker with a penchant for
high-risk, he may not have lived to be 80, lots of people don't.
That would take the mystery to the grave.

[happythoughts 0]

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How do you photograph a complete stranger you
see once and never again, "Before the hair transplant"?

CIA disinformation program.

However, I know that there is a perfectly logical answer
that will be posted shortly.

After all, the identity of this man will solve the case.

[happythoughts 0]

from post 7151

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I understand your frustration, but the FBI has better things to do than prove suspects are not wanted criminals in order to satisfy family members needs or demands
.
They looked at Duane, found no probative unequivocal evidence that he actually was Cooper and moved on. Proving Duane was not Cooper is an inefficient use of investigative resources. Their refusal to go further with investigating Duane riles you up, but that is their call.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far nothing you have offered proves Duane was Cooper, only that he might have been. Thousands of people might have been.

The FBI wants to solve this case as much as you do, but their solution is not predetermined. It is an open question with them, but not with you. All Cooper roads lead to Duane and vice versa as you see it. The FBI sees it as an unsolved case in which a number of suspects have been looked at, but none provably Cooper.

You are biased. You are sure Duane was Cooper or at the very least was involved with Cooper. You refuse to consider that he just knew about Cooper, as many did, and had ZERO involvement.

You see coverup and conspiracy in every goof the FBI made in their investigation. The truth is far less glamorous. Evidence gets lost, mislabeled, altered and even pilfered. I got a few cases dismissed due to evidence handling screwups. It happens from time to time even with no conspiracy, coverup or bad intentions.

377

My cousin and I were roommates for a few years.
We had known each other since we were kids, so we had many
common experiences and knew a lot of the same jokes.

My son used to say that when we would hear something that
rang a bell, we would just look at each other and nothing was spoken.

He said we should just number our jokes and then refer to them like:
"Hey... number 312."
and then both of us could laugh.
It save actually repeating them.

From now on, in order to save typing after something triggers
a need for this to be reposted, we can just type #7151 and save some disk space for our host.

Internet shorthand of some form.

[377 22]

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Have you ever looked at any historical stuff on barbed wire in the west and all the permutations. Fascinating. Barbed wire was a big deal. There are people who collect all the historical variations.

Barbed wire STILL is a big deal, if you are on the wrong side of it. There I was, flying an Eipper MX ultraight at about 1500 ft on my second solo flight when BANG, the damned Rotax snowmobile engine self destructs throwing a rod. The terrain below is pretty rocky except for a couple of cow pastures which have been cleared, but the cow density is very high.

Descending as a poor performing glider, I spot an area of a pasture that is free of cows. I line up, am making what looks to be a perfect emergency landing approach when I finally see why there are no cows in this patch. Duhhhhh. There is a barbed wire fence straight ahead of me, perpendicular to my flight path and obscured by tall weeds. I can see my self being shredded. I wait until the last possible second, clearing the backs of cows by a few feet and bury the stick in full up elevator deflection. I mush over the top, clearing the barbed wire by a few inches, stall and slide to an uneventful landing cushioned by the tall weeds on the other side. Whew!

Every skydiver who jumped rounds in winds has stories about how they got back to the DZ without snagging their gear on barbed wire. An old timer told me just forget about trying to climb over it in your gear. Throw your gear over it and traverse it gearless, its the ONLY way. That's what I did.

Cooper probably had to deal with barbed wire hiking out of his LZ. It wouldn't be easy at night in the rain. You'd think that there might be some odd muddy footprints that would have captured some farmer's or landowner's attention the next day.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 268]

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How do you photograph a complete stranger you
see once and never again, "Before the hair transplant"?

CIA disinformation program.

However, I know that there is a perfectly logical answer
that will be posted shortly.

After all, the identity of this man will solve the case.

My answer is: Jo thinks in stereotypes and she thinks
her clients, (which is us!) do also. She thinks we will buy any damned swamp or bridge.

Another detail about the photo is it doesnt seem to
fit the date (era) she is claiming it was taken in.
It looks older than what she is claiming. Its a very
crappy photo done with a crappy camera - brownie 620
from the 60's? It could be a photo of anyone or any thing. She may know or not know, and not care. But
she will send others out on a wild goose chase, in any event.

As a person who knows Jo very well has advised: Take
everything Jo says with a ton of salt. Let it go in one ear and out the other, and dont get bogged down in the swamp she is selling. She may not know herself
what she has, or care. But she will act as if its important. She places no value on other people's
time"

Snowmman said band uniform. I thought pilot
uniform. I didnt even notice the title on her photo
until yesterday: "Before Hair Transplant". Its funny
we all missed that, including Snowmman!

I dont think Jo cares in any event. Its for us to have
to deal with and figure out and she really does not
care, and this Forum does not care. Jo does not have to play by any rules, while some of the rest of us do
or try to!

The game is rigged. If you give Jo Weber your time
you are screwed.

G.

[happythoughts 0]

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She thinks we will buy any damned swamp or bridge.

Selling swamp land in Florida is a career, ask anyone who lives
on the lower west coast.

Yes, it is from one exciting moment to the next.
Anyone who disregards, or disagrees, is "being mean".

Every once in a while, we get a new guy.
New guys should be given a little educational information.
That can limit the amount of time that they waste on pointless
bunny trails into never-never land.

[377 22]

Georger,

Don't you have to be pretty darn close with a Brownie 620 class of camera to have the person appear as large as they do in the picture? I am assuming we are seeing the whole frame.

The chevron man also appears as if he might be looking in the general direction of the camera.

So given the proximity of the camera to the subject, the size of the camera (we are not talking MINOX here) and the fact that the camera is likely in the subject's field of view, how likely is it that this shot was really covert? If a photo would mean disaster for this person, one might expect him to grab the camera and/or rip the film out. I have seen cops do this when police brutality was photograhed back in the 60s.

I don't get so torqued about Jo's positions and the time one might waste pursuing or responding to them. I don't think she is consciously inconsiderate. She really believes what she promulgates and is on a mission. In general, we are far less kind to her than she is to us.

Glad to see you reconsidered your departure from the forum. We need smart science oriented critical thinkers like you on here so please stick around.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 268]

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Quote

There's an opportunity for you Snowmman. You
can work both sides of the fence.

Nah..it's like the Alaskan gold rush. Best way to make money was to be the guy selling shovels.

Instead of working both sides of the fence, I want to be the guy who sells fencing.

Reply> Thats very obvious. But some people respect that.

The thing you seem unable to accept is that Ckret made no promises - well actually he did. He said this
was all temporary. He said this Forum was simply one
element of a larger plan. He doesn't owe you an
explanation in any event. And Ckret has superiors
who are also accountable and must review what a
Forum is accomplishing or not.

That's how it appears to me.

I suppose you and Jo could paint up a protest sign?

I mean you Snowmman have said a thousand times
none of this really matters to you and you didnt even
mind if you were kicked off the forum, all in the very
midst of some people trying to do some credible
work here! That may be stylish and chic and in line
with brilliance, but it hardly the kind of thing the FBI
is going to hang its hat on.

Just wave your hand. It wlll all go away and you will
feel better.

I really dont know what else to say because I am not
smart enough to say anything better.

G.

• Quote

[georger 268]

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Georger,

Don't you have to be pretty darn close with a Brownie 620 class of camera to have the person appear as large as they do in the picture? I am assuming we are seeing the whole frame.

The chevron man also appears as if he might be looking in the general direction of the camera.

Reply> well yes. A Brownie would have to be close
to get that size of image. Maybe Jo can tell us what
the camera was. 10:1 she will say it was Duane's
camera and she doesnt know - a Nikon or Zeiss or something. She just clicked the shutter and nothing
more. The subject does look like he's looking at
the people taking the photo.

Look! All we have to do is send this photo to the CIA
and say: WHO IN HELL IS THIS! JO WEBER DEMANDS TO KNOW!". That should bring a quick
response and an apology, and maybe a free Big
Mack and tickets to the Super Bowl? I will send it
them tonight by email!!



So given the proximity of the camera to the subject, the size of the camera (we are not talking MINOX here) and the fact that the camera is likely in the subject's field of view, how likely is it that this shot was really covert? If a photo would mean disaster for this person, one might expect him to grab the camera and/or rip the film out. I have seen cops do this when police brutality was photograhed back in the 60s.

Reply> This is just some guy walking on the street
carrying a suit bag, in a suit jacket that looks like a
pilot's jacket. BEFORE HAIR TRASPLANT!


I don't get so torqued about Jo's positions and the time one might waste pursuing or responding to them. I don't think she is consciously inconsiderate. She really believes what she promulgates and is on a mission. In general, we are far less kind to her than she is to us.

Reply> unless you are Ckret or on the receiving
end of her unsolicited PM's.

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

good story 377.
I didn't know you had tried ultralights.
I saw a vid on youtube where an ultralight engine died on a guy, and he basically plummeted into the trees..a number of injuries but survived.

Sounds like you played it pretty cool, to your advantage. I thought they don't glide very well?

The barbed wire story reminds of when me and a friend first discovered electric wire fences as kids. It was his idea to have me touch it with a pipe to see what happens.
Ouch.

[snowmman 3]

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Its a very
crappy photo done with a crappy camera - brownie 620
from the 60's?

interesting thought Georger. Remember that all transfers of old photos are thru scanners. What makes you think of the camera vintage? fixed focus or ???

I'm wondering if any scanner artifacts (Jo probably doesn't use state-of-the-art scanning) might confuse the issue.

it's interesting we have to deal with modern full digital photo info here, and old film -> paper -> scan -> computer transfers also.

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman said band uniform.

No I never hazarded a guess on the photo. I just ignored it.

I thought when Jo introduced it, she said some had suggested band uniform. Not me.

[georger 268]

I don't get so torqued about Jo's positions and the time one might waste pursuing or responding to them. I don't think she is consciously inconsiderate. She really believes what she promulgates and is on a mission. In general, we are far less kind to her than she is to us.


377