DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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from post 6469:

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The Man in the AVATAR had an office in that Centre in 1979 - find out who he was and you will solve the Cooper Saga.

I'm still working on this one.

I am inches from blowing this case apart.
The total solution.

That picture is linked in some way to Duane's past - Duane didn't make those items appear ( the ticket, the stub and the bag) like magic and he didn't make them - so if Duane is not Cooper ---who did he know who may have been - or who did he take them off of?

Just because the picture is linked to Duane's "past" doesn't automatically mean it is linked to the items you mention. How do you make the connection, Jo?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Smokejumpers with bull riding experience were heavily recruited during the cold war as kickers for nuclear weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

(edit) Note that Major Kong is wearing a rig, right?

the extended version shows the back rig starting at 4:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgHSDa2Jwqc

[skyjack71 0]

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If Duane was proven to be a genuine double-ought spy
who did a night 727 jump into Laos, it still wouldn't put him in
a harness that night.

If Duane was connected to any illegal or covert actions - I do not believe he had a lot of knowledge about what was being done. You guys are blowing this all out of proportions. Basically all I want to do is explore the things about the Rodeo man and the C.O.s and reasons for any mention of TX and AZ coming up. Duane did GET around - lots of places in a short period of time - he was a thief - but that still doesn't explain his extensive traveling and broad knowledge of places and things.

Nothing I do satisfies any of you - I am trying to help bring a end to this and all I get is made fun of and made a joke of.

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"Just because the picture is linked to Duane's "past" doesn't automatically mean it is linked to the items you mention. How do you make the connection, Jo? "

It is the sequence of things he did in a 2 day period of time - the things that were said and done in those 2 days.

The Rodeo Man - I have to find out who he was - he was a smokejumper. Maybe he was Cooper. This Rodeo man could be black or white or passing - but, I have the impression he had American Indian Heritage.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 268]

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If Duane was proven to be a genuine double-ought spy
who did a night 727 jump into Laos, it still wouldn't put him in
a harness that night.

If Duane was connected to any illegal or covert actions - I do not believe he had a lot of knowledge about what was being done. You guys are blowing this all out of proportions. Basically all I want to do is explore the things about the Rodeo man and the C.O.s and reasons for any mention of TX and AZ coming up. Duane did GET around - lots of places in a short period of time - he was a thief - but that still doesn't explain his extensive traveling and broad knowledge of places and things.

Nothing I do satisfies any of you - I am trying to help bring a end to this and all I get is made fun of and made a joke of.


WHILE ALSO; FLOODING people with PM's and phone calls spreading accusations, lies, rumors, and more total BS, accusations, & lies.

The most amazing thing of all, you seem to lack even basic knowledge about the Cooper case itself.

That is a wonderful strategy.

And in some quarters it works!

[Orange1 0]

Many years ago when I was studying, I recall a journal article (I think it was by Clower and Leijonhufvud but my memory may be faulty on the particular article) where they published a theory claiming that they were "reading between the lines" of Keynes.
One of the critiques of the article, also published, accused them of not so much reading between the lines as reading right off the edge of the page.
I think that conclusion can be well applied to certain of the arguments here

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

There are no asides in the DBC thread.
Everything is relevant.

It was Coddington remarking on Clower's analysis of Keynes.
reprinted in many places.

first in 1976 at:
Coddington, Alan. "Keynesian Economics: The Search for First Principles." Journal of Economic Literature 14, pp. 1258-1273 (Dec. 1976)

"The picture here seems to be one of Keynes with a mind full of ideas some of which he got onto the pages of the General Theory, the task being to work out what the remainder must have been. This is a problem of reading not so much between the lines as off the edge of the page"

from
http://books.google.com/books?id=4hNyTuPWlaAC&dq=%22Keynesian+Economics:+The+Search+for+First+Principles.&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA106,M1

[Orange1 0]

Snow, you're a star. I tried to find it on Google and couldn't! At least my memory is not altogether faulty for something I studied 20 years ago

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 268]

There was no reason for Cooper to be wandering aimlessly.

Reply> Unless he was impaired or lost (didnt know
where he was at), or waiting for something. Of course
nobody knows, evidently.

The best indicator to me is he waited to bail. He
was basically ready and could have gone out any
time from when Tina went forward until the pressure
bumps. That has been calculated roughly as a 20
minute period. So what was he waiting for?

I think he was waiting for the lights of Portland-
Vancouver to come up, but I could be wrong. Ckret
is convinced he did not know where he was at.

Then money shows up at Tina Bar, and not by
Duane and Jo's hand!

He could have died and somebody finds him, takes
the bulk of the money, and dumps his body into the Columbia or disposes of Cooper in some other way
(close to Tina Bar).

The problem is we have absolutely nothing to go
on, so its all speculation.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

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WHILE ALSO; FLOODING people with PM's and phone calls spreading accusations, lies, rumors, and more total BS, accusations, & lies.

The most amazing thing of all, you seem to lack even basic knowledge about the Cooper case itself.

That is a wonderful strategy.

I keep the facts of the case better than most of you do. When I error I acknowledge I have done so.

I make no accusations and do not knowingly tell a lie - if I am repeating something someone else said that is misunderstood - that could be construed as a lie in the minds of some indivduals who DO NOT know me and have never met me.

As for rumors -I try to stifle them.

Such as some of the things said:
You (Georger) are the one who has brought up that the man in the SLC picture could be CIA or FBI - it was NOT me (Jo Weber) making that statement.

I do NOT take the basics and twist them - I look at them in a more simple way without all of the analyzing done by yourself and others.

I have NO strategy - I tell NO lies.
I accuse no one. I am looking for answers - but I simplifiy what I read and see and hear regarding Cooper with what I know about Duane Weber.

If you REALLY wanted to help you would try to REALLY find out who the man was in the photo taken at SLC. If you REALLY wanted to solve this crime rather than to disfuse anything I say - you would be doing things to SOLVE the case and not making posts to demean my words or what I have tried to tell the forum and the public.

Such tactics serve only to distract from bringing any resolutions to this case - so I will now make an ACCUSATION. I believe you are here for only ONE purpose - that is your own and possibly that of another source since you seem to have an inside (from statements you have made)) regarding FBI and CIA personnel.

On my way to the Hemotologist.
Bye!.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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Snow, you're a star. I tried to find it on Google and couldn't! At least my memory is not altogether faulty for something I studied 20 years ago

hmm...are you saying I've got to find out where you studied 20 years ago now? Hey I already searched on you a while back when we were talking about it, and found an article you wrote recently for work that had your picture.

Guys: with respect to the most important question posed on this thread: Is Orange1 a hot South African babe? The answer is yes.

oh, I meant she's smart. Yeah that's it.

[happythoughts 0]

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I believe you are here for only ONE purpose - that is your own and possibly that of another source since you seem to have an inside (from statements you have made)) regarding FBI and CIA personnel.

You have been found out.

What is your O-fishul spy number?

Are you in charge of The Coverup, or merely the staff
member responsible for day-to-day coverup duties?

[Orange1 0]

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I am looking for answers - but I simplifiy what I read and see and hear regarding Cooper with what I know about Duane Weber.

And therein lies the rub. The rest of us mostly or all try to keep an open mind on the case; you try to make the facts fit Duane and ignore (simplify) them if they don't.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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hmm...are you saying I've got to find out where you studied 20 years ago now? Hey I already searched on you a while back when we were talking about it, and found an article you wrote recently for work that had your picture.

OMG please do NOT publicize that... every "PR" type shot I have ever had taken is awful.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 268]

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I believe you are here for only ONE purpose - that is your own and possibly that of another source since you seem to have an inside (from statements you have made)) regarding FBI and CIA personnel.

You have been found out.

What is your O-fishul spy number?

Are you in charge of The Coverup, or merely the staff
member responsible for day-to-day coverup duties?

Merely staff. Although Im the only trained chimp on staff. I have to go to Menards and get a blizzard blower.
BYE!

[377 22]

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I believe you are here for only ONE purpose - that is your own and possibly that of another source since you seem to have an inside (from statements you have made)) regarding FBI and CIA personnel.

My opinion Jo, for what it is worth, is that we have only had ONE FBI/CIA type on this forum ever and his participation was hardly covert. Any time someone starts down the CIA conspiracy/coverup path it is a pretty safe bet that they are wrong. You have yet to articulate a credible theory about why the FBI or CIA would be trying to cover up anything about this ancient case case. that has no current national secuity issues.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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people post links to threads, without reading the thread I think.

No, I understood that the weather conditions were worse than Cooper would have dealt with.

But Cooper probably would have been wet. From the canopy descent, or the landing. Wet and 40's is seriously dangerous. He could well have been shoeless too. If he was wearing loafers, they would probably be gone. Even ankle high slip ons could well have been blown off at the exit speeds he experienced. We can be fairly sure he didn't have dry clothes to change into. Even his overcoat, if he managed to keep it, wouldn't have been much help. Wearing just a wet suitcoat, if he didn't find a way to get warm, he would be in major trouble.

He could well have built a fire. He was a smoker. (one thing I miss about quitting is not having a lighter on me all the time). He also had the fake bomb, which was probably flares.
But, he was getting lights from Tina, so did that mean he was out of matches, or just saving them?
And did he keep the "bomb" or just toss it away?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[snowmman 3]

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people post links to threads, without reading the thread I think.

No, I understood that the weather conditions were worse than Cooper would have dealt with.

But Cooper probably would have been wet. From the canopy descent, or the landing. Wet and 40's is seriously dangerous. He could well have been shoeless too. If he was wearing loafers, they would probably be gone. Even ankle high slip ons could well have been blown off at the exit speeds he experienced. We can be fairly sure he didn't have dry clothes to change into. Even his overcoat, if he managed to keep it, wouldn't have been much help. Wearing just a wet suitcoat, if he didn't find a way to get warm, he would be in major trouble.

He could well have built a fire. He was a smoker. (one thing I miss about quitting is not having a lighter on me all the time). He also had the fake bomb, which was probably flares.
But, he was getting lights from Tina, so did that mean he was out of matches, or just saving them?
And did he keep the "bomb" or just toss it away?

Fair enough, wolfriverjoe. We're all just thinking about probabilities. And even a small one either way could have been Cooper's resolution. So we can't know.

However, you raise a good point. Assuming he landed okay, and recovered the canopy, and then perished that night. Would his body have been more easily found, or less easily? If the same likelihood, then we can just as well assume he "went in" without pulling, right?

I think we only need to lump scenarios into ones that lead to different outcomes that facts might back up, like where his body might have been found, or why it wasn't found?

Here's my fun scenario.

Cooper lands with the flares in a field. Walks to a road. Lights the flares and puts them on the road like there's been an accident.
Car stops and Cooper says "My car ran off the road, can you give me a lift to town"...and gets in.

No one expects the bad guy to lay out 3 road flares on the road. Nice way to get a car to stop for you in the middle of the night.

[snowmman 3]

While dry cells were commonly available in hardware stores in 1971, they weren't purchased at high rates.
A store might sell one a week?

There couldn't have been that many interesting hardware stores in the WA area to cover.

Surprises me the FBI didn't plaster information for hardware store people to respond to..i.e. looking for someone that bought flares, dry cell, red wire.

Probably would have been easier than hunting down the JC Penney tie, since it's unclear when the tie was bought (years before or ??)

the flares, dry cell, red wire were likely bought just before the hijack. (not provably so, but likely).

This was before big box stores took over hardware. Hardware store people would remember stuff like that in those days, I think.

(edit) in fact, if Dunbar hadn't disappeared, that would be a good angle for any tv documentary to play up: appeal to people who worked hw stores in the area in 1971 to try and remember anyone. Heck if we have night clerks at motels, let's get hw store clerks too!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Yes, who would expect the "bad guy" to set out road flares. Easiest way in the world to get a passing car to stop.

If he was freezing to death, would he have tried to:

#1 Hide so that his body wouldn't be found?

#2 Find a place to "hole up" where he would be out of the worst of the weather?

If he found a sheltered area, under a fallen tree, say, and covered himself with vegatation, would he be found??
I know places where leaves pile up year after year. Anything buried under them isn't likely to be found.

As you said, probabilities, or for this speculation-possibilites.

We've discussed to death (and then some) who he was, what experience he had, what happened on the plane and during the jump.
But there hasn't been much on what may have happened after he landed. How he got out of the woods and back to civilization.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[georger 268]

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Yes, who would expect the "bad guy" to set out road flares. Easiest way in the world to get a passing car to stop.

If he was freezing to death, would he have tried to:

#1 Hide so that his body wouldn't be found?

#2 Find a place to "hole up" where he would be out of the worst of the weather?

If he found a sheltered area, under a fallen tree, say, and covered himself with vegatation, would he be found??
I know places where leaves pile up year after year. Anything buried under them isn't likely to be found.

As you said, probabilities, or for this speculation-possibilites.

We've discussed to death (and then some) who he was, what experience he had, what happened on the plane and during the jump.
But there hasn't been much on what may have happened after he landed. How he got out of the woods and back to civilization.

His options kind of depend on where he lands?
Where he lands has to connect in some way with
the money at Tina Bar, just as the placard connects
with the flight path.

The fact of the $$$$$$ at Tina Bar means he lost
some money, some how, somewhere.

Now a new angle: does the KGB have a file on the
Cooper matter? "On this day in 1971, suspicions that foiled would-be hijacker D.B. Cooper was a Soviet spy were confirmed when a KGB defector being debriefed at a CIA safe house in France was shown a photo of Cooper and identified him as one Dmitri Kaprinsky, a sleeper agent who'd been working undercover in the United States since the late 1950s. 'Dan Cooper' was an alias created by the KGB to facilitate Kaprinsky's extrication from American society, except that their agent decided
to leave a calling card which shocked the KGB."

"His original plan was to leave his assignment at Seattle, but this failed. He then hijacked an aeroplane and jumped near Vancouver where
he made a telephone call to his contacts and was picked up by boat on the Columbia near Vancouver making his way back north, and eventually back to Russia wherehe eventually faced thewrath of the KGB. The failure to connect him relied on the very old Rusian-Societ network established in the Northwest, who never turn in one of their own "

"The FBI has always been reluctant to discuss this
side of the story, for obvious reasons. One tipoff
is the flares Cooper carried under the guise of being a bomb. Flares were standard operating procedure for military trained paratroopers dropping at night, at the time. The FBI made this connection very
quickly and concentrated its efforts on a military
connection."

"The next tipoff was Cooper's use of American slang
in order to establish himself as being mainstream
American, when in reality there is no such thing as mainstream especially in the Norhwest. Kaprinsky
also ordered a stiff bourbon, when what he really
wanted was a shot of vodka. Kaprinsky's knowledge of the aeroplane was evident from his prior work
as a avionics spy. Kaprinsky no doubt expected to be rewarded by his superiors back in Moscow, but
he faced a rude welcome."

Georger

[377 22]

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Here's my fun scenario.

Cooper lands with the flares in a field. Walks to a road. Lights the flares and puts them on the road like there's been an accident.
Car stops and Cooper says "My car ran off the road, can you give me a lift to town"...and gets in.

No one expects the bad guy to lay out 3 road flares on the road. Nice way to get a car to stop for you in the middle of the night.

Now that's clever Snow.

Also tracing the dry cell was a good idea. In the early 60s I was my hardware store's only customer for those big screw terminal cells. I used them to power the glow plug when starting my model airplane engine. They'd stock a new one about every 6 months, I'd buy it and they'd order another.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 268]

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Here's my fun scenario.

Cooper lands with the flares in a field. Walks to a road. Lights the flares and puts them on the road like there's been an accident.
Car stops and Cooper says "My car ran off the road, can you give me a lift to town"...and gets in.

No one expects the bad guy to lay out 3 road flares on the road. Nice way to get a car to stop for you in the middle of the night.

Now that's clever Snow.

Also tracing the dry cell was a good idea. In the early 60s I was my hardware store's only customer for those big screw terminal cells. I used them to power the glow plug when starting my model airplane engine. They'd stock a new one about every 6 months, I'd buy it and they'd order another.

377

"....ah yes, Agent 377, could I interest you in a nice ceiling fan - we have them on special right now - only
$3.99! as for that battery, well yes, we had a guy in here last Thursday. Let me see. He purchased the model RA38A, I think. We have them on special also. Only $2.99. Ah yes well, this guy spoke
perfect Russian. We had to get our Betty out of
the warehouse to translate. That's our Betty Kippov
from Lenningrad. Her dad's family settled here in
1830. Been 'round here longer than white people haeve! Say, I gotta son likewould like an autograph from a real FBI agent. Here, on this paper. Just
write it in care of: 377. He think's he's an aeroplane!"

Georger

[snowmman 3]

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Here's my fun scenario.

Cooper lands with the flares in a field. Walks to a road. Lights the flares and puts them on the road like there's been an accident.
Car stops and Cooper says "My car ran off the road, can you give me a lift to town"...and gets in.

No one expects the bad guy to lay out 3 road flares on the road. Nice way to get a car to stop for you in the middle of the night.

Now that's clever Snow.

Also tracing the dry cell was a good idea. In the early 60s I was my hardware store's only customer for those big screw terminal cells. I used them to power the glow plug when starting my model airplane engine. They'd stock a new one about every 6 months, I'd buy it and they'd order another.

377

"....ah yes, Agent 377, could I interest you in a nice ceiling fan - we have them on special right now - only
$3.99! as for that battery, well yes, we had a guy in here last Thursday. Let me see. He purchased the model RA38A, I think. We have them on special also. Only $2.99. Ah yes well, this guy spoke
perfect Russian. We had to get our Betty out of
the warehouse to translate. That's our Betty Kippov
from Lenningrad. Her dad's family settled here in
1830. Been 'round here longer than white people haeve! Say, I gotta son likewould like an autograph from a real FBI agent. Here, on this paper. Just
write it in care of: 377. He think's he's an aeroplane!"

Georger

Hey Georger I'm assuming you're a fan of the fake history wiki's on the web with your russian postings?

Contrast what you're making fun of with this approach:

"Hi world..My name is Larry Carr, FBI agent. We think Cooper died, but we're hoping someone will call in and tell us who Cooper is. The phone number is xxx-xxxx"

Now how in the world does something dumb-ass like that make sense?

Georger: how long do you think it would take me to find out what model snowblower you bought, if you bought one? (and what cost. I'm assuming I'd have to fly into your area)

And I'm talking with no more info than you've offered so far.

Would you bet against me?

(edit) Oh maybe I can enhance the dumbass nature of the above

"Yeah we have citizen investigators that are helping us"

[skyjack71 0]

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My opinion Jo, for what it is worth, is that we have only had ONE FBI/CIA type on this forum ever and his participation was hardly covert. Any time someone starts down the CIA conspiracy/coverup path it is a pretty safe bet that they are wrong. You have yet to articulate a credible theory about why the FBI or CIA would be trying to cover up anything about this ancient case case. that has no current national secuity issues.

377

Georger is the one who keeps talking CIA and FBI. I just know things told to me by people who knew Duane including some in his family.

Anyone with involvement in covert actions of any kind are NOT going to stand out there and wave a flag saying here I am. How many of the individuals involved in the covert groups of the 60's are known to this date. Some of them are, but what about the errand boys and those that did a lot of the dirty work.

There are many that died without coming forward and believed in their cause till they died. Most if not all are deceased now - so we only have the rumors or the stories they left behind. I am just not able to dig thru the files to pull up a few names, but some of them have been talked about in this forum...in relation to CIA. In the other thread we spoke about some involved with the Cuban crisis and JFK. Some are know to us - but other who were involved just went back to their lives.

We know that JMWave existed and it's involvement in Cuba and other things - I have W-2's from two of these companies..after 1968. How many were under the name John Collins that the FBI will NOT share with me.

The FBI is the only one with the access to certain records which the FBI refused to pull or simply were not interested in for whatever reason...When someone can pull out the things I have about Duane and the FBI does not come forward and explain why this suspect could not be Cooper that smells like garbage to me. (What evidence does the FBI have that Weber was NOT Cooper). If they have proof he was not Cooper WHY haven't they come forward with that proof.

I have given the FBI names and dates and documents - all they had to do was use their system to verifiy employment ( there are yrs of SS under John Collins and other names I provided to the FBI).

A simple pulling of records - that the government only has access to, could end this forever. Why would they not do it just to put it behind them - maybe I didn't give the information to the right person.

The FBI could have gotten rid of me yrs ago by divulging to me Duane's name used and employment records for 1944- 1950 (on one name they will and would have found dual reporting of earned income) and also from 1962 - thru 1978, Yet, they didn't do that - ask yourself WHY?

Why did they NOT acknowledge that Duane was indeed in McNeil and was in the Army? Why did the FBI agent lie to me and then when I went public they had to admit to what I did know. Also note that his prison records for Jefferson are all but sealed - they have NOT been accessible - I tried for yrs to get them - I had someone go there with a letter on my behalf - I pleaded with the FBI about those records for 13 yrs.

Also remember that Carr promised to send me those records - he did not do so. If they have proof that what I am saying is not true - don't you think they would have come forward yrs ago? They offered ne NO evidence to support their claim - except for DNA which was compromised. They couldn't or didn't want to find the butts - the only valid DNA. They kept a lid on the sack Cooper carried on - the FBI just doesn't talk about it.
WHY?

When I told the FBI what I had been told about the tie - suddenly 10's of 1000's of pictures previously open to the public were sealed and remain sealed, but were open for public viewing until I told them the story behind the tie - I quit believing in truth and justice when this happened.

Carr would never have admitted to the sack if it had not been my bringing it up and then he never addressed any questions about that sack. I think he acknowledge only after I mentioned it that there was a sack and told us the size sack.


Did anyone ever think about what the real purpose of that battery was for? How much did Tina really see? Did he use the battery to power a communication device when he got on the ground? Was the raincoat one of those shiny light weight water repellant nylons?
Note the FBI never has detailed the coat. Maybe I just did.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 268]

Georger