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Orange1 0
Look at the old Rose composite and the Shaffner composite and a prison photo of Duane on intake in 1960. He was not very happy - the lip comparisons of those 2 old Composites with the mouth of Duane 11 yrs before.
Jo, to be honest - these look like 3 different sets of lips to me. I can see some resemblance between the 2nd and 3rd, but the 2nd is significantly wider (differently proportioned) than the 3rd. If you showed me this with no background at all, I would be inclined to say they belong to 3 different people.
snowmman 3
Jan 1973 is a lot sooner than 1981 for sure, but it is still not "right after the crime" and would have had seen a lot of press coverage etc in the interim. So, better by a huge degree but not ideal. In my opinion.
I looked in the newspapers, and in 1974 they were still publishing the 71 sketch. So I don't know why the other one wasn't distributed if it was done in 73.
I'll have to find when it was first distributed. Is the theory it was first distributed in 1981?
snowmman 3
I can't keep on fighting the battle. I can't go on without some help from someplace or someone. I wish Duane had never told me he was Dan Cooper and I wish I had never STUMBLED onto who Dan Cooper was.
Hi Jo. You didn't stumble on Dan Cooper. Yes it would have been better if Duane didn't say anything. Yes you can't go on and no one is going to help you. That's a good thing! Everyone here likes you anyhow. 377 always reminds us to!
snowmman 3
Orange go delete some of those posts - one of them repeated itself 9 times - what are u drinking tonight. You are the one who was nice in asking about the composites and yet Snowmman wants me to scan the backs - I will scan the backs for a private individual - but I can't see where on a site that is going to help - someone else but me needs to see and document this - that can only be done in person.
Yes the backs need to be secret. Yes nothing you post on this site will help. Yes it will never be done in person.
snowmman 3
Look at the old Rose composite and the Shaffner composite and a prison photo of Duane on intake in 1960. He was not very happy - the lip comparisons of those 2 old Composites with the mouth of Duane 11 yrs before.
Jo, to be honest - these look like 3 different sets of lips to me. I can see some resemblance between the 2nd and 3rd, but the 2nd is significantly wider (differently proportioned) than the 3rd. If you showed me this with no background at all, I would be inclined to say they belong to 3 different people.
Orange1 you remind me of something.
The FBI or someone did a supposed "age-advanced" sketch. I think that's bogus and unhelpful.
People are going to be comparing against photographs from say '65 to '75.
When Cooper did the hijack, he could easily have been 20 lbs lighter than a normal weight a photograph might have showed in "better" times (assuming Cooper did this when he was stressed for some reason)
I say 20 lbs because if Cooper was 180, then a 200 lb picture of him is not out of the question?
But for a 6' guy, a 160 lb picture is too light. So if anything, Cooper was heavier in photos, or the same. But not lighter.
So I always thought that a range of sketches show show cooper with different hair, maybe without the tie, maybe with up to 20 lbs more weight.
And smiling! no one grimaces at friends taking a photo.
Back then most photos would be black and white, so the color probably isn't as important?
And if cooper didn't wear glasses, then the sunglass photo isn't useful.
A focus on the description of the wraparound shades would be nice. I think most people think the shades where like those eventually used in Blues Brothers, and Risky Business. i.e. RayBan 2140's. (recently reintroduced for sale!)
But they're not.
They're also not the standard mil issue vietnam sunglasses from the era. I checked? those are MIL-S-475D's. (photo attached)
I attached ray ban 2140s (wayfarers) also
The Wayfarers were very big. Iconic. See wiki:
but that's not what Cooper wore. (see sketches)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray-Ban_Wayfarer
snowmman 3
So I started with the 71 sketch again, and turned the eyes a bit (not staring straight ahead), dialed in some sadness on the eyebrows (affects the inner eyebrow, coming down more towards the nose, like the '81 sketch?) ..drooped the left eye a bit...added some weight, a little more forehead than I had before, some more ear...a slightly different camera angle, skin tone a little different, and then did some genetic mutations with whatever dinosaur DNA I could find laying around. (Damn, have the Velociraptors got out again last night?)
Oh, and dialed it so he's saying "ee-e.." like in "Cheeeeese"
attached.
(edit) I added a copy of it with the 71 fbi sketch on the right, so you can visually determine whether you think it's reasonable, based on that sketch.
Orange1 0
snow, i need some hair!! i feel like i am looking at an extra from Star Trek!
snowmman 3
snow, i need some hair!! i feel like i am looking at an extra from Star Trek!
ya, I suspect a fair number of DZ.com'ers would like some more hair too? :)
Hair is hard. Also hair is with the paid software, which is expensive. I think it's hard to computerize hair, with the current state of the art?
I was thinking I could just airbrush in some black to get the hair lines we like, but then again, there could be so much variance in Cooper in any pictures that might be around...I'm not sure if it's worth it?
I think today, our use of sketches is different than 1971.
Today, people aren't going to remember what someone looked like in '71.
So a sketch is only useful in terms of comparing it to photographs in the '65-'75 time frame, I think.
The variation in the top hair in the '71 sketch compared to the '81 sketch, makes me think that Cooper's hair was not well defined, other than receding, black, and maybe the sideburns.
(edit) I found another program I'm going to try.
377 22
377
snowmman 3
I was intrigued by these comments in the help.
Got me wondering. Was Cooper "attractive" ???
What say girls? Was it just the hairline that works against him? or ???
# Creating Attractive Faces.
* Everyone has personal preferences, but on average, the most attractive faces are those that are close to the average.
* Psychologists have found that the most attractive female faces are those which look like the average 17 year-old female, in which the degree of femininity is exaggerated by about 25%.
* To achieve this in FaceGen Modeller, select the race you want, slide the age to 17, move the gender just past 'female' and bring the caricature values as close to average as you think necessary.
* The most attractive male faces are those which look like the average 25 year-old male, but with a slight amount (5%) of femininity !
* Attractive faces are also more symmetric, so reduce the amount of asymmetry - but leave a little to keep the face looking real.
No. What I am saying is that the artist was trying to depict a action or expression that Cooper made with his mouth the very same action/expression Duane did when he was aggravated. Although Cooper was not nasty he was letting them know that he meant business and that he was NOT happy with the way things where going ... Best expressed by a specific facial action.
Look at the old Rose composite and the Shaffner composite and a prison photo of Duane on intake in 1960. He was not very happy - the lip comparisons of those 2 old Composites with the mouth of Duane 11 yrs before.
We can Credit Safecrack for this photo.
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