Ropes 'n Rings

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

I bought an early Para Plane from Tom Manship in 1975 and the reefing system was on the top of the canopy. The entire top surface was a battle scarred with burns, rip stop tape and patches.
It packed up as big as a suitcase - but it was a 'square'.

[RogerRamjet 0]

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...a reefing rope, maybe 1/4-inch nylon ...

I think it was cotton clothesline, not nylon. Wouldn't nylon burn nylon?
But I could be wrong.

HW

Yes, it was cotton (or certainly not nylon). 60 feet sounds about right. The burns were a result of pulling some of the fabric through the rings during deployment. I got the first (I think) Strato Star delivered in Florida. Booth had ordered it for another jumper who didn't happen to have the funds when it arrived and I had just destroyed my cheapo with a lineover. Bill and I, with a phone call to the manufacturer, figured out how to pack it on the front lawn and I jumped it that weekend. The softest openings of anything I ever jumped, if a bit slow compared to the cheapo or PC of the time. The slider made it more like a PC opening and probably removed nearly all the remaining reasons for a mal. I always thought a properly tuned, properly packed, slider equipped Strato Star would open every time. Mine certainly did for the 650 jumps I put on it.

The older top rings and ropes setup on the para plane and cloud did not have enough leverage to slow the openings at terminal enough and that's why the bags had a collar (went around the suspension lines) that was set differently for sub-terminal vs. terminal openings. Whoa to the jumper who ignored that setting. Take a terminally reefed cloud on a hop and pop and you have a bag lock. Take a sub terminally reefed cloud terminal and visit the hospital...

I never saw anyone jump a strato star without any reefing as mentioned earlier in the thread though. I would think you would not do that more than once...

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Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[gjhdiver 0]

We had the ropes and rings system on our old club square that you got to jump if you had over 100 round jumps. It was a heavyweight Cloud. If the thing opened, the reefing system was the least of your worries as you had to be built like Arnold Schwartzenegger to steer the fucking thing

I also remember that just for fun, just about every piece of equipment at our club had a different type of release on it. The static rounds had two shot capewells, the freefall rounds had Meyers single point releases (conveniently located right by the ripcord), the Delta II had one and a half shots, the Papillon had one shots, the cloud had 3-rings, the Hornet (yes a Hornet, which I susbequently gave to it's designer Greg Yarbernet) had R3's, and the baby cloud had Boothwells. Funnily enough, none of that seemed strange at the time.

I remember that confusing the one and half shots with the one shots made for an interesting jump.

[RogerRamjet 0]

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We had the ropes and rings system on our old club square that you got to jump if you had over 100 round jumps. It was a heavyweight Cloud. If the thing opened, the reefing system was the least of your worries as you had to be built like Arnold Schwartzenegger to steer the fucking thing

I also remember that just for fun, just about every piece of equipment at our club had a different type of release on it. The static rounds had two shot capewells, the freefall rounds had Meyers single point releases (conveniently located right by the ripcord), the Delta II had one and a half shots, the Papillon had one shots, the cloud had 3-rings, the Hornet (yes a Hornet, which I susbequently gave to it's designer Greg Yarbernet) had R3's, and the baby cloud had Boothwells. Funnily enough, none of that seemed strange at the time.

I remember that confusing the one and half shots with the one shots made for an interesting jump.

We also had a 100 jump minimum for squares at Z-Hills in those days (I started in 73). We didn't have any club squares, but several locals owned nearly every type square there was and I jumped them all. My nickname was Roger Ramair for a while until Roger Nelson stuck Ramjet on me...

I don't remember the Cloud being all that hard, but all the squares took more steering pressure than the rounds it seemed. The Strato Star had a much lighter steering pressure than the Cloud or Plane. I think the original Sled I jumped was pretty light compared to the Cloud/Plane as well.

As for releases, most of gear I borrowed for my square jumps had shot and a halfs except Billy Revis' gear which had One Shots like my own gear. I liked One Shots and would still jump them today without hesitation. Switching between Shot and a Half and One Shots systems a lot could certainly bring a surprise at cutaway time though I think I'd prefer the "too quick" to the "why haven't I cutaway yet" reaction

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Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[mccurley 1]

Reading this thread has brought back some memories. This one might be better placed in the scary stories thread but I think it applies here as well.
In 74 at the Port Severn drop zone in Ontario, we had several PCs and a Paraplane Sled as demo canopies, all dark blue with the Belvedere Tobacco name on the side.
Steve West (RIP) went up for a jump with the sled (rope and rings, pack one way for terminal one way for hop and pop). It was cold, he was wearing ski gloves, and had a bloody great pilot chute in tow after dumping.
Watching from the ground was scary enough as he keep falling and falling, but from his position dealing with ski gloves and shot and a half capewells, he removed one glove, using his teeth to do so, and proceeded to cut away one side at a time. He managed to get through all this and get out his belly mount reserve very low, far off the DZ and into the bush.
A group of us hoped into a Landrover and went out to retrieve him. After bush bashing as far as we could go, which wasn’t very far we found Steve, minus all the gear, walking back towards the DZ.
He had landed up a small tree and managed to get him self down leaving the rig up the tree. So off we went in pursuit of the gear eating tree and along the way found the cut away main, the offending glove, and the kicker plate from the reserve.
We also found a local duck hunter, complete with shot gun, who had seen Steve descend, and he led us back to the tree to retrieve the reserve etc.
Of course the reserve hanging in the tree wasn’t going to just leap down into our arms, so the duck hunter placed a few rounds into the trunk (about 4 inch diameter) and down came the tree.
So a great story and a very close call due to the ropes and rings and the alternate terminal vs. sub-terminal deployment system.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[jonstark 8]

And so begat the "bag lock". And it was bad. So the SkyGods decided to freepack more than their nuts and experimented with their canopies. And it was bad. Then there was Velcro. And it was good. And they got rid of their snaps and zippers and it was better still.

Wasn't it NickDG who said "back in the day" is a euphemism for "you wouldn't understand if we told you."

It's a marvel how so many of you old farts are still jumping yet how many of those who quit as things were in such a flux missed out on the halcyon days of safe gear. The short interlude before the days of "Femuring" and "cause of death: low turn".

jon

[gjhdiver 0]

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And so begat the "bag lock". And it was bad. So the SkyGods decided to freepack more than their nuts and experimented with their canopies. And it was bad. Then there was Velcro. And it was good. And they got rid of their snaps and zippers and it was better still.

Wasn't it NickDG who said "back in the day" is a euphemism for "you wouldn't understand if we told you."

It's a marvel how so many of you old farts are still jumping yet how many of those who quit as things were in such a flux missed out on the halcyon days of safe gear. The short interlude before the days of "Femuring" and "cause of death: low turn".

jon

Don't get me started on pins and cones either.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of old timers stopped jumping because the gear pretty much beat them out of the sport by around 1000 jumps.

[wmw999 2,587]

I used to curse the day Joe Dot (inventor of the dot snap ) was born.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jonstark 8]

Ha Ha

Pull on the damn dot until the whole thing came out in your hand.

jon

[NickDG 23]

And when I first saw "snaps" on a Dolphin rig's riser covers, even though I knew they weren't true pull the dot types, I freaked . . .

NickD BASE 194

[bozo 0]

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And when I first saw "snaps" on a Dolphin rig's riser covers, even though I knew they weren't true pull the dot types, I freaked . . .

NickD BASE 194

Oh man.....I bought one of the first Dolphins with the snaps. What a mistake. I wound up buying a replacement kit and carried a small hammer and snap die to replace the snaps every time I went to the dz as they would pull out. I finally put that harness away....its in a bag at the bottom of the closet with my old Streamlite.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[tbrown 26]

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We always called them "ropes and rings" and not "rings and ropes." Probably a coastal thing . . .

Basically the way it worked is instead of a slider, because the slider wasn't invented yet, the canopy could only inflate as a fast as it could drag the already inflated pilot chute back down to its top surface. The "ropes" that surrounded the canopy were all part of the pilot chute bridle system. It was "reefing" in the best sense, when it worked right.

And it should be mentioned some where doing terminal jumps completely "un-reefed" in those days with the idea if you could take it, the canopy would. They built bullet proof squares, and bullet proof jumpers, in those days.

It took Greg Yarbenet, with a small square model of a Volplane, to invent the Slider. He pushed his wedding ring up the lines, before throwing it up in the air, and noticed the canopy would only inflate as fast as it could push the ring down the lines. Adding fabric to that idea only slowed things down more . . . and that became the full sail Slider . . .

I've heard different stories over the years, but that's the way it was told to me, and I'm sticking to it!

NickD BASE 194

I remember the ropes & rings well, back when I started in '74 that's all there was. I wasn't jumping squares in those days, my first square jump wasn't until '78 and by then sliders were the standard.

But I remember the older Para-Plane Clouds used to open from one side to the other and not from the center out. And they still opened brutally hard, or so I was told. When the Strato Stars started coming around, people were raving about how SOFT the openings were, because the ropes and rings were a new system that had been moved to the bottom side of the canopy.

I also remember that a lot of people would go through a learning curve with their Strato Stars, until they got the packing down it wasn't unusual for them to have a bunch of cutaways. But the openings were soft, softer than sliders, or so I was told. For a fact the serious style and accuracy jumpers stuck with their ropes and rings until almost the eighties, as they gave a marshmallow soft opening, especially after turning a hot style series.

But then one day in 1975 I went out to the dropzone at Seneca Falls and saw the strangest site. Jim Parker was coming in on final under his black 7 cell Para Foil and there was this strange piece of fabric flapping at the top of his risers. "WHAT is THAT ?" I asked. "Oh, that's a SLIDER", was the reverential reply. "Parker picked one up at the Nationals. It does the same thing as ropes & rings, only it's so much easier". After that people started buying sliders and slider equipped Strato Stars like hotcakes. And the few jumpers with older Strato Stars and Clouds all whipped out their jack knives and started cutting off all those rings.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[howardwhite 6]

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..went out to the dropzone at Seneca Falls and saw the strangest site.

Yeah, that was the same band of wackos who were also making square throw-out pilot chutes. I still have mine (but never jumped it.)

HW

[tbrown 26]

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..went out to the dropzone at Seneca Falls and saw the strangest site.

Yeah, that was the same band of wackos who were also making square throw-out pilot chutes. I still have mine (but never jumped it.)

HW

Jimmy Tavino used one of those to deploy his Papillon - probly the onliest skideever in history to deploy a round canopy wid' a square pilot chute !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[airtwardo 7]

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..went out to the dropzone at Seneca Falls and saw the strangest site.

Yeah, that was the same band of wackos who were also making square throw-out pilot chutes. I still have mine (but never jumped it.)

HW

Jimmy Tavino used one of those to deploy his Papillon - probly the onliest skideever in history to deploy a round canopy wid' a square pilot chute !

You mean Jimmy T. did a FIRST?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wmw999 2,587]

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square throw-out pilot chutes

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probly the onliest skideever in history to deploy a round canopy wid' a square pilot chute !

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You mean Jimmy T. did a FIRST?!

Maybe a first, but definitely not an only. There were a few at Spaceland, and I made one up at Turners the fall of 1978. It didn't work very well, and resulted in at least one reserve ride, so I retired it . Replaced it with an A3 with the spring taken out. That also didn't work very well, and resulted in a reserve ride. So finally I ponied up and paid real dollars for a new hand-deploy pilot chute.

Good thing reserves are reliable, and 23-year-olds bullet-proof

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airtwardo 7]

Good thing reserves are reliable, and 23-year-olds bullet-proof

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Bullet resistant....I got the scars to prove it.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[howardwhite 6]

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It took Greg Yarbenet, with a small square model of a Volplane, to invent the Slider.

Yup. I had an early Yarbenet slider on my Volplane, replacing the hydraulic system. Instead of grommets, it had full-sized D-rings sliding on the lines.
And now -- just for the historical record -- is that very Yarbenet slider. It came either directly from Pioneer or from Parachutes Incorporated -- I forget which.
It may well have been built by Yarbenet himself. It is certainly one of the first-ever working sliders (and it's in my garage, for the moment, next to the hydraulic reefing system.)

HW

[kkeenan 14]

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I bought an early Para Plane from Tom Manship in 1975

Now, there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Back then, Tom and I were both on USAF B-52 crews from different bases. We were both at Carswell AFB on the way to SE Asia, and he saw the Starcrest patch that I wore on my flight jacket. I met a few AF jumpers that way.

Anybody know if Tom is still around ??


Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[JSBIRD 1]

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I bought an early Para Plane from Tom Manship in 1975

Now, there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Back then, Tom and I were both on USAF B-52 crews from different bases. We were both at Carswell AFB on the way to SE Asia, and he saw the Starcrest patch that I wore on my flight jacket. I met a few AF jumpers that way.

Anybody know if Tom is still around ??


Kevin K.

If it was Julian 'Tom' Manship you're referring to, I regret to inform you he was killed on a B.A.S.E. jump on New years Eve 2005, in North Carolina.

PM for more info.

BASE359

"Now I've settled down,
in a quiet little town,
and forgot about everything"

[JumpUpMyAss 0]

I can't think of jumping without memories of Manship. I knew him from 1975 on. In 1995 he and I got back into jumping when when went up to Gainesville and made a jump at McBrides place.
Theres only one Tom manship.

[andrewhilton 1]

Here's some more pictures to confuse or explain ropes and rings, taken from a Stratocloud manual.

I have a Paraplane Cloud with top surface PCR system and a Heavyweight Cloud with a bottom surface PCR, which I can post more pictures of some time.

I would like to jump the Paraplane Cloud and wonder if I can just fit a slider - has anyone any experience or memories of doing that - any suggestions of the size of slider to try?

Another question - is a Heavyweight cloud the same as a Strato-cloud? I couldn't find any direct reference to Heavyweight clouds in Poynters....

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Andrew

[lekstrom10k 0]

The original cloud had 1000lb line line 550 only bigger with a clove hitch and 2 half hitches with about 4 iches excess line sewn down under red heat shrink.
The next version had 1000lb micro stretch but would hang up a slider at thr cascades most of the time
Imade a a machine to reline cloude with around 750lbs line. Also no trailing brake loops inline like todays.
Another thing we did if you have 6to8 hours to spare was de taping the top and bottom seams. It took a few dozen exacto blades with patienceto yield a quart size sauce pan full of unnecessary reinforcing tape .It would now fit in a container for a Para-commander.. Also hot knife coffee can size cross port holes at the "B" and "D" or so inner rib panels. As far as the slider size it didnt matter much if it stayed up you used the coffee can template to cut a hole in its center. We put a loop on the center tail for 3 rubber bands, one for the slider and te other for each set of excess right and left steering lines
Question2
The Para-plane cloud didnt have stabalizer and about 21foot "A" lines
The Strato clouds had stabalizer and 2square vent on the bottom skin for deep brakes sinks for accuracy landings
The cloud could be put ina slack line sink and drop behind you. When you let up quick it would pass over you again with you slackline above it . then back to normal
a fulldown toggle spin could have the nose below you until you let up.
The slider was the second best thing to happen to jumping after 4 jumpers in a C-182.
thankfully Zoo toggles replaced the round 1 inch plastic ones with extraction loops
Like Ford as any color as long as it was black Para planes any size as long as it was 220 ,baby plane as long asit was 200. Strato clouds started getting sizes. A rule of thumb was add 50 to your weight for a canopy size. I hope this helped if you need more info let me know

[sprtdth 0]

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I would like to jump the Paraplane Cloud and wonder if I can just fit a slider - has anyone any experience or memories of doing that - any suggestions of the size of slider to try?

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This thread is reviving brain cells that are probably better left dead, but, here goes.
The slider I built for a Plane way back was the same size as the one I made for my StratoStar. The size of that one was, whatever I measured with a tailors tape at the top of the risers, front to back, side to side, then added a "little bit" (I didn't know any better. The factory slider was about 6 months away) the words "should work" come to mind.
Unfortunately, the risers on my Strat were only 14" long with the lines sewn into them, The Plane had standard 30-36" (?) risers. something to think about.
I did remove the heat shrink, the slider will get hung up at the cascades, less bulk to pump the slider over.

CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58

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[howardwhite 6]

I just found these in an old Parachutist, illustrating an "official" Para-Flite story on the Stratostar.
A drawing of the canopy and diagrams of the opening sequence.

HW