Help me to remember...

[Guru312 0]

I went through jump school in March of 1960 at Ft. Bragg while with the 82nd Airborne. I started skydiving in June of 1960 with the XVIII Abn Corps SPC.

When I started skydiving, there was great 'debate' among the club members about the safety of having a sleeve retainer line to hold on the sleeve and just how long it should be if one existed at all.

When I got out of the military and started jumping in civilian life in 1962 even more heated debate took place about the retainer line.

Can any of you old folks remember when the sleeve retainer line was conceived? And by whom? Jacques Istel? Do you remember similar 'debates' about the safety of it?

'Debate' = 'screaming arguments'.

Comments?

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[howardwhite 6]

Quote

Can any of you old folks remember when the sleeve retainer line was conceived? And by whom? Jacques Istel?

Poynter's manual (p 245 in the second edition) shows two patent drawings for sleeves.
One, issued to R. L. Oakley in 1956, shows a pilot chute and sleeve apparently detached from the main canopy. The second, issued April 4, 1961 to "Jacques-Andre Istel by Lewis Barton Sanborn," shows a sleeve clearly attached to the canopy apex.
I'm reasonably sure that retainer lines were used at the Orange Sport Parachute Center from the moment it opened May 2, 1959. (Istel, D-2, was president, and Sanborn, D-1, was vice president.) It's hard to imgine shaggers running around the DZ policing up sleeves.
FWIW, Lee Guilfoyle, D-50 and another early PI exec, is credited with inventing the pilot chute assist system.

HW

[highspeeddirt 0]

as a kid, my brother and i would retreive the errent sleeve and pilotchute when a retainer line broke.usually we got $5.

[Guru312 0]

Hi Howard!

And thanks for the comments. I have Poynter's first edition around somewhere but haven't seen it in a few years. I remember talking with Mike Schultz at Pelicanland about the sleeve development and I think it was he who mentioned Istel.

I made a jump or two at Sicily DZ at Bragg with no line and finally decided that I 'risk my life' by tying it on.

Thanks again.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Guru312 0]

Now wait a minute...isn't shagging sleeves the second reason reason early jumpers had girl friends? Number one being holding tension, of course.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[longtall 0]

Some hold tension , some create tension , some do both.

" 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards

[RogerRamjet 0]

Quote

I went through jump school in March of 1960 at Ft. Bragg while with the 82nd Airborne. I started skydiving in June of 1960 with the XVIII Abn Corps SPC.

When I started skydiving, there was great 'debate' among the club members about the safety of having a sleeve retainer line to hold on the sleeve and just how long it should be if one existed at all.

When I got out of the military and started jumping in civilian life in 1962 even more heated debate took place about the retainer line.

Can any of you old folks remember when the sleeve retainer line was conceived? And by whom? Jacques Istel? Do you remember similar 'debates' about the safety of it?

'Debate' = 'screaming arguments'.

Comments?

I asked a friend of mine, Bill Zucchelli who started at Ft. Bragg in 1960 about this. Do you know him?

Here is his reply:

Quote

Hi Roger
Never chased a sleeve. Started jumping in 1960,
and Always jumped a sleeve with a retaining line.
Can't remenber if anyone did that before 1960. I'm
sure if i had to chased a sleeve 2 or 3 times i would
have found a way to attached it.

BILL

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[howardwhite 6]

"MakeItHappen" has on her history page the following:

"Sanborn was the first person to jump with a sleeve tied on to the apex. Sleeves had just been introduced in France, tying it on was a new idea. It worked."

No attribution, no info as to where or when.

HW