High altitude records - no, not the "usual" question

[Orange1 0]

Guys, I've tried a search but it hasn't answered this question.

So Kittinger set the record, which he apparently still holds; apparently Piantanida (sp?) broke it but didn't get the record (because of what happened to him?) but according to the FAI website a Russian holds the record for a high altitide jump at 24500m.

What are the different criteria that are decided on who gets what record?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Yossarian 0]

apparently kittingers jump was not sanctioned and therefore not recognised by the FAI, and the russian one was some guy from 123,000ft who had a premature on exit, either freezing to death or running out of oxygen before he hit the ground. Piantanida never jumped out of the balloon, the capsule was released from the balloon at 53,000ft and parachuted down with him inside it.

[Orange1 0]

Thanks

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[vpozzoli 0]

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Guys, I've tried a search but it hasn't answered this question.

So Kittinger set the record, which he apparently still holds; apparently Piantanida (sp?) broke it but didn't get the record (because of what happened to him?) but according to the FAI website a Russian holds the record for a high altitide jump at 24500m.

What are the different criteria that are decided on who gets what record?

Kittinger used a drogue to keep stable. Therefore his jump does not qualify as "free fall" and is not recognized by the FAI, or so I have heard.
The record is for highest free fall, I guess the Russian did not use a drogue and qualified.
Ciao.

Vale

[ibx 2]

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Kittinger used a drogue to keep stable. Therefore his jump does not qualify as "free fall" and is not recognized by the FAI, or so I have heard.
The record is for highest free fall, I guess the Russian did not use a drogue and qualified.

That maybe... but I've seen footage of the jump. At least on exit, it's in a documentary on German TV every once in a while.

He must have deployed the drogue later.

--john

[Orange1 0]

The first response seems to make sense, if FAI then followed similar procedures to now wrt records

Also I never quite understood the drogue argument. Do tandem pax never freefall then??

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[vpozzoli 0]

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That maybe... but I've seen footage of the jump. At least on exit, it's in a documentary on German TV every once in a while.

He must have deployed the drogue later.

--john

It was deployed after a set delay (a few seconds) by an automated device.

Vale

[krkeenan 0]

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Also I never quite understood the drogue argument. Do tandem pax never freefall then??

Correct.
That's why it's called "free"-fall. Unassisted by any stability device.

Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[Orange1 0]

Hope this question isn't too dumb. (I never did any tandems so haven't been involved in any jumps using a drogue): I thought the primary reason for using a drogue was to slow freefall speeds, rather than for stability?

Also does anyone know if it's true that Kittinger only had 30 jumps or so when he did the "big" one?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[krkeenan 0]

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I thought the primary reason for using a drogue was to slow freefall speeds, rather than for stability?

IIRC there was concern that a jumper could become unstable, spinning uncontrollably, in the thin atmosphere at 100k ft. I don't think that the drogue was to control his speed.
A tandem drogue is primarily to control speed, but certainly adds stability, I think. (I've never made a tandem jump either
Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[ripcord4 0]

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Hope this question isn't too dumb. (I never did any tandems so haven't been involved in any jumps using a drogue): I thought the primary reason for using a drogue was to slow freefall speeds, rather than for stability?

Also does anyone know if it's true that Kittinger only had 30 jumps or so when he did the "big" one?

(Then) Captain Kittenger was not a skydiver. He was participating in experimental research parachute jumps by the USAF in high altitude bail-outs. That is why his "free-fall" jumps are not recognized as records. Project "Man High" was never intended to have anything to do with sport jumping, only to develop techniques and equipment for ever-higher bail-outs. The drogue technique was to provide stability and prevent deadly flat spins at extreme altitude. Kittinger needed to freefall a bit to build up some airspeed to enable a clean deployment of the drogue. On a previous jump, the drogue had deployed immediately and he became entangled with it and was almost killed. Hence the delay in deployment. For a good read, "The Long, Lonely Leap" is all about his jumps. Good luck on finding a copy, it is long out of print, scarce and expensive. Kittinger went on to be a decorated fighter pilot in Viet Nam. The gondola he jumped from is on display in the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio.

[wartload 0]

The FAI (Federation Aeronautique Internationale) is an international organization that is represented by various "arms" in different countries. In the US, it's the NAA (National Aeronautic Association), under whose umbrella the USPA falls.

In order for a record to be homologated, the local arm of the FAI must be involved. The would-be record setter must make a declaration of the attempt, and FAI (NAA in the US) certified judges must be present to witness the event. In cases involving altitude attempts, sealed recording barometric devices need to be in the aircraft. These are unsealed and read by FAI (NAA) certified officials after the attempt has been made.

With all these requirements, there are several explanations why any record, or record attempt, might be listed as "unofficial."

[anu 0]

Kittinger's jump is still the highest (albeit unofficial) jump attempted - and yes, it was drogue assisted. He was testing the Beaupre Multi stage Opening system as the last part of Project Excelsior.
Some of the above postings are confusing a number of incidents. As part of Project Volga, Yevgenny (Eugene) Andreev jumped from 82 750 ft, setting the current FAI record. This was in 1962, and the death of another Soviet flyer (Dolgov) occurred on the same day - he jumped from 94 000 ft as part of testing of Soviet space capsule ejection systems, and for some reason had a premature opening in the region of 90000ft. He froze to death or ran out of oxygen ( or both). Nick Piantanida was a civilian who wanted to break both records in 1965-66. He did reach 123 000ft in his balloon, but couldn't release his oxygen disconnector prior to the jump, and the balloon gondola returned to Earth by use of its own parachute ( with him still inside). For this reason, Piantanida's flight, the highest ever attained by humans in a balloon, is NOT an FAI ballooning record - this is held by Navy Lts Vic Prather and Malcolm Ross, who reached 113 000ft in a balloon launched from a US Navy ship in 1961. One of them subsequently drowned in recovery ops. Piantanida was killed when he tried to go for the record again in 1966. He suffered explosive decompression at 57 000ft .....his gondola was recovered by parachute automated release, and he was in a coma for three months before he died. This is the most severe case of high-altitude explosive decompression ever documented. A tragic history post-Kittinger...........

[anu 0]

Sorry, I got a bit confused myself! Dolgov cracked his faceplate on exiting the gondola, hence his death during descent. He was testing the then-new Sokol pressure suit for the Soviet Vostok program.

[riggerrob 643]

The primary reason for installing drogues on civilian tandems was to slow them down, reduce opening shock and increase the life of tandem mains.

A side benefit was allowing dz bums to make a living as outside videographers. That helped pay for all the turbines on modern DZs, etc.

Much later we learned that drogues help with stability and can prevent deadly side-spins.