riddler 0 #1 August 22, 2003 skr lent me a book entitled "SKYDIVING - the art and science of sport parachuting", second printing, 1962, hardback, $6.50. This is a treasure of what skydiving, as well as general social views, used to be like. Among other things, the author constantly refers to skydivers as "him", "he", etc, and occasionally makes a remark that yes, there are women skydivers too. Also, it's all about rounds, baby! 28 and 24 square foot, and the author describes in detail how to pack and maintain them. It's a nice reflection of how the rules and regulations have changed. No USPA - the official organization is the PCA - Parachute Club of America. A thorough, although biased toward American, history of skydiving, including a detailed description of Kittinger's jump (with pictures), and a remark about how someday, when humans finally travel in space Author is Bud Sellick. I'm having a blast reading it.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 August 22, 2003 QuoteAlso, it's all about rounds, baby! 28 and 24 square foot, Its all about diameter baby... You really need to jump some of those...Green Meet Pre jump hint for rounds... PRACTICE your PLF's Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #3 August 22, 2003 Yeah... I found that in a used book store here in Houston, last year.... 5 bucks! The thing was like brand new! looked to have never been cracked. Interesting read. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #4 August 22, 2003 PCA is USPA, before the name change. I've collected several (hmmmm many?) old skydiving and rigging books. Of course I started on some of this gear. Go to http://www.cs.fiu.edu/~esj/uwf/works.html for some of the early history of relative work. Back when the perfect swoop was the goal and some skydivers were poets.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #5 August 22, 2003 Quoteu really need to jump some of those No thanks. Over the years, I've gotten fond of my ankles and knees.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #6 August 22, 2003 Oh, god! Now we're going to have to break Riddler of all kinds of bad habits: "No Phil, you shouldn't have rolled over when you pulled your reserve." "No, Phil, you shoot accuracy UP-wind!" "No Phil, it really wasn't a good idea to hot-knife those extra holes in the rear of your canopy." "No Phil, BigAirSportz doesn't recommend using a deployment sleeve with the Lotus.""There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #7 August 22, 2003 Sheesh what a whoosie... here I am... a woman over 50 years old and I am not what one would call petite.. and I plan on jumping one again next year... in the Green Meet... come on down to sea level ( Snohomish East Field is 15 ft above sea level) and jump with us.. its not that bad.. really... Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #8 August 22, 2003 QuoteBigAirSportz doesn't recommend using a deployment sleeve with the Lotus I love the whole concept of the "sleeve" as opposed to a slider for slowing down openings. I know newer rounds have sliders, but I never thought there was anything preceding this technology. In the book, the author states that skydiving is an expensive sport - some things don't change. He goes on to say you might spend five hundred dollars for all your equipment. It would be interesting to factor in inflation and see if that equates to the thousands we spend today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #9 August 23, 2003 QuoteQuoteBigAirSportz doesn't recommend using a deployment sleeve with the Lotus I love the whole concept of the "sleeve" as opposed to a slider for slowing down openings. I know newer rounds have sliders, but I never thought there was anything preceding this technology. In the book, the author states that skydiving is an expensive sport - some things don't change. He goes on to say you might spend five hundred dollars for all your equipment. It would be interesting to factor in inflation and see if that equates to the thousands we spend today. The sleeve is an alternative to the bag, not the slider. It keeps the deployment staged, but does not slow the opening. If you decide to jump your Lotus with a sleeve and no slider, I DEFINITELY want to shoot video! Slider alternatives are: - Spider slider, (old ParaFoils) - Bottom ropes & rings (StratoStar & StratoCloud) - Top ropes & rings, (ParaPlane, ParaSled) - Opening Shock Inibitor (Delta 2 ParaWing) - That hydraulic gizmo on the VolPlane."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #10 August 23, 2003 Oh - so you have a sleeve and a slider? I took note during the packing instruction, and he had no reference at all to a slider. Considering the detail he went into, I don't think it was overlooked.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #11 August 23, 2003 QuoteOh - so you have a sleeve and a slider? I took note during the packing instruction, and he had no reference at all to a slider. Considering the detail he went into, I don't think it was overlooked. In general, rounds don't need sliders."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #12 August 24, 2003 A Starlite was the only round I knew that had a slider; a spider slider was optional. It also had a sleeve or bag (although I don't think a lot of people used sleeves on them). Other than that, after the invention of the sleeve, I doubt a lot of people deliberately jumped rounds without some sort of slowing down device -- a terminal opening on an undiapered/unsleeved/unbagged round can be pretty brutal. I've done it, and the lumps under the bruises on my legs lasted for almost a year. If you can find a copy of the first edition of Poynter's Parachute Manual, there's an encyclopedic amount of information. Of course, there's not a whole lot of indication as to what was actually used regularly... Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #13 August 31, 2003 QuoteYou really need to jump some of those...Green Meet I'm ALL over that baby! I have one, count'em One round ride, on a 24 ' lopo from near terminal. I was a student on jump #20 and the damn Cruiselite actaully snivelled (stuck slider?) afte I took a full five count before clearing the pilot chute in tow . Jumping a round for 'fun' rather than as a life preserver just sounds like too much fun ... of course I'm also a (former) vintage British sportscar racer too, so there must be something about old tech that appeals to me. Must you supply your own rig? Is it legal to jump something older than you? -Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #14 September 1, 2003 I dont know if any of the rigs our club has are older than I am....but they have the rigs... and they ARE old.. they are all rigger inspected and when we had them out last year they looked in good servicible condition. I also used to own a TR-3A.. TR-4 TR-250.. and an MGA and an MGB or two.and a Austin Healy Sprite..I did not sit in that car to drive...I wore it.. and one Jaguar XK150... I love those old cars... reach out and touch the ground from a REAL roadster. Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #15 September 1, 2003 Quoteand a Austin Healy Sprite..I did not sit in that car to drive...I wore it.. See attched... I underctand completely I sold the the GT-6 shortly before I started skydiving. Ironically, the present owner had me rebuild a gearbox for him over the past week - and he wants to sell it back to me. I have a Tr4a in pieces (I've woned since 15 years old). Sadly either the restoration or the repurchase would seriously crimp my jump budget so I might have to remember them fondly. Still, the idea of fininshing the 4a in roadster trim with the Judson supercharger I acquired and getting my airtime on the way to the DZ is enticing. -Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #16 September 1, 2003 I have a couple hundrerd jumps on my 24' Papillon... Which I still have...anyone wanna try it?! My water jump...from 1980 was one of the last times I jumped it.... I made one more at Elsonore about 10 years ago, after crashing into the peas... the DZO asked me not to bring it out... EVER AGAIN! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitecap 0 #17 September 1, 2003 Anyone who likes an MGB and jumps round parachutes can't be all bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #18 September 2, 2003 My first sport rig had a Papillon in it. I bought it from my instructor Tom Manning... and it was also my student rig. I put like 100 jumps on that thing.. and my first two reserve rides were due to my skill at packing it. I sold mine about 1976... along with the rest of the old sporterized military stuff. It was black and red. The reserve was a C-9 Orange and white ... I love Water jumps...the only problem is having to let everything dry out and getting the reserve repacked after one. I used to love my little English sports cars.. I sold off my 1972 MGB about 5 years ago and am missing it a lot..It was the last in a long line of knuckle scarring work on the thing myself sports cars that I owned. nowadays they are just too hard to find in any kind of good order and I just do not have time or energy to work on them. Trying to find an adequate mechanic that actually knows how to maintain them....ie leave the damn SU's alone and dont futz with the carb sync.... and just readjust the points and rockers.... are just too hard to find. I need to find some of my old pictures....sigh Amazon Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #19 September 2, 2003 QuoteMy first sport rig had a Papillon in it. I bought it from my instructor Tom Manning... and it was also my student rig *** Hummm... I believe I have some old pictures of Tom somewhere around here too! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #20 September 21, 2005 I found that book in a flea market last year. Funny thing was it seems to have been presented to someone by the members of the ST Thomas Parachute Club in 1964, it's got all the signatures on the back page. And strangely enough, the president of the club in 64 signed, BERNIE LARKIN. Stranger still, I'm supposed to be doing some demos with him this Saturday, think I;ll take it out and show it off....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 September 21, 2005 I did four-way scrambles at the POPS spring meet in Lake Wales a couple of years ago with Bernie. Our team got third! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #22 September 21, 2005 QuoteAnyone who likes an MGB and jumps round parachutes can't be all bad. I could be wrong since it was 30 years ago, but I believe when I went to work for Bill Booth, he was driving a MGB at the time (and had been jumping rounds too). Jim Hooper at Z-Hills had a MGB also I believe and more recently had a Morgan. He is living in England so has his choice ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cutaway1 3 #23 September 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteu really need to jump some of those No thanks. Over the years, I've gotten fond of my ankles and knees. I'm tired of hearing all the bum raps about those round parachutes. My second rig was a round 28' 7TU, I logged over 500 jumps on that beautiful blue dyed canopy, the majority were standups in mocasins. It was all in the technique, just like today, except I only wayed 150 lbs back then. They were state of the art then, and we really loved them. They were very reliable. In the 60's I saw alot of intentional low pulls and openings below a 1,000 ft without a single mishap. The most common injury wasn't necessarily the ankel or knee, but people would break their rist when they had to much forward speed, and instead of rolling, they would stick their arm out. They were very simple and geometric canopies, and packed up very neat. When I first started packing a square into a bag, I was scared to death to stuff all this sloppy fabric into a tight bag. Anyway they were great parachutes and we loved them. Oh, and they had very positive openings, you could tell you had had a good weekend by the black and blue marks on your thighs. And oh ya, nobody killed themselves under an open canopy unless they hit something, like a train or power lines. We once made a bandit night jump over Marina Del Rey in L.A. out of a cessna with the door on it, we exited at 10,500 with flares on. We had to pull low because we didn't want to get picked up by the radar at LAX. We dodged hundreds of boat mast, the freeways, and the water, we did stand up landings on a small narrow patch of sand in front of Chuck's Steak House, and went in and had dinner. The next day the L.A. Times cited numerous reports of strange lights moving in the sky. It was easy and fun, and we thought we were safe. I know I run on, but we really loved those round parachutes. But, I'm not going to trade in my sabre 150 either. Aloha, TimSCR-21 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #24 September 24, 2005 When I first met the Bird I think he was driving an old Porsche Boxster?If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #25 September 24, 2005 Hear! Hear! I didn't do a lot of round jumps, maybe 50 - 100, but I sure as hell ain't scared of them! Strangely enough I find a lot of jumpers nowadays are scared to even jump an old F-111 7-cell in order to do crw with. They look at them the same way older guys look at rounds.... I guess if it ain't zero-pee and zippy they don't want it.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. 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skypuppy 1 #20 September 21, 2005 I found that book in a flea market last year. Funny thing was it seems to have been presented to someone by the members of the ST Thomas Parachute Club in 1964, it's got all the signatures on the back page. And strangely enough, the president of the club in 64 signed, BERNIE LARKIN. Stranger still, I'm supposed to be doing some demos with him this Saturday, think I;ll take it out and show it off....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 September 21, 2005 I did four-way scrambles at the POPS spring meet in Lake Wales a couple of years ago with Bernie. Our team got third! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #22 September 21, 2005 QuoteAnyone who likes an MGB and jumps round parachutes can't be all bad. I could be wrong since it was 30 years ago, but I believe when I went to work for Bill Booth, he was driving a MGB at the time (and had been jumping rounds too). Jim Hooper at Z-Hills had a MGB also I believe and more recently had a Morgan. He is living in England so has his choice ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cutaway1 3 #23 September 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteu really need to jump some of those No thanks. Over the years, I've gotten fond of my ankles and knees. I'm tired of hearing all the bum raps about those round parachutes. My second rig was a round 28' 7TU, I logged over 500 jumps on that beautiful blue dyed canopy, the majority were standups in mocasins. It was all in the technique, just like today, except I only wayed 150 lbs back then. They were state of the art then, and we really loved them. They were very reliable. In the 60's I saw alot of intentional low pulls and openings below a 1,000 ft without a single mishap. The most common injury wasn't necessarily the ankel or knee, but people would break their rist when they had to much forward speed, and instead of rolling, they would stick their arm out. They were very simple and geometric canopies, and packed up very neat. When I first started packing a square into a bag, I was scared to death to stuff all this sloppy fabric into a tight bag. Anyway they were great parachutes and we loved them. Oh, and they had very positive openings, you could tell you had had a good weekend by the black and blue marks on your thighs. And oh ya, nobody killed themselves under an open canopy unless they hit something, like a train or power lines. We once made a bandit night jump over Marina Del Rey in L.A. out of a cessna with the door on it, we exited at 10,500 with flares on. We had to pull low because we didn't want to get picked up by the radar at LAX. We dodged hundreds of boat mast, the freeways, and the water, we did stand up landings on a small narrow patch of sand in front of Chuck's Steak House, and went in and had dinner. The next day the L.A. Times cited numerous reports of strange lights moving in the sky. It was easy and fun, and we thought we were safe. I know I run on, but we really loved those round parachutes. But, I'm not going to trade in my sabre 150 either. Aloha, TimSCR-21 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #24 September 24, 2005 When I first met the Bird I think he was driving an old Porsche Boxster?If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #25 September 24, 2005 Hear! Hear! I didn't do a lot of round jumps, maybe 50 - 100, but I sure as hell ain't scared of them! Strangely enough I find a lot of jumpers nowadays are scared to even jump an old F-111 7-cell in order to do crw with. They look at them the same way older guys look at rounds.... I guess if it ain't zero-pee and zippy they don't want it.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
