Frap Hats

[steve1 5]

I know a lot of really good jumpers who still jump leather Frap Hats. I'm just wondering about protection value. I watched a guy walk back to the packing area a few days ago whose head was covered with blood and guts, and yes he was wearing a Frap Hat when the accident happened. We were jumping Cara-van and were experiencing a lot of rough air. On exit he slammed his head into the top of the door. If he had been wearing a hard shell helmet I doubt if he would have been hurt. Just some food for thought. Steve1

[AggieDave 6]

We've discussed the downsides of having a Frap hat before, if I remember correctly Bill Von had some really good insite, it might be worth doing a search and reading about it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I still wear a frap hat for demo jumps and occasionally for "work" tandems. While, no, they don't give much protection from impact, they will generally keep you from getting torn open on something.

Chuck

[billvon 3,111]

Frap hats do several things for you:

-They provide abrasion protection (i.e. help prevent cuts and bruises)
-They hold your dytter
-They hold your gloves and goggles before you put them on
-They keep your hair in place.

They do not provide much in the way of impact protection. In some (rare) cases (i.e. contact just right with a soft surface like dirt) they may increase your chance of injury by concentrating the impact along one rib. If you are concerned about impact protection, a protec is about the best protection that you can get, since they are indestructible and have a good density of foam inside them. Note that many protecs are actually the same shell with different foam inserts; when that is the case the smaller ones give you more impact protection than the larger ones since there is more foam to absorb energy and decelerate your head gradually.

[kallend 2,146]

A friend of mine had a bad landing accident due to a stuck toggle. (She probably should have cut away but that's a different story). She was wearing a full-face helmet. She broke her pelvis, femur, and jaw, but was basically OK in the head department. According to the doc, had she not had a full face helmet her jaw would have been completely shattered and she'd have no teeth left.

[drenaline 0]

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-They keep your hair in place.

Only reason I wear them and I only do it when am doing solo jumps or hop n pop.

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If you are concerned about impact protection, a protec is about the best protection that you can get

Cheaper than a frap hat, better than a frap hat and you can hear the wind better than the frap hat. I use that when am not making hop n pops.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[billvon 3,111]

> According to the doc, had she not had a full face helmet her jaw
> would have been completely shattered and she'd have no teeth left.

OTOH, a friend of mine had an accident wearing an open face helmet and had similar injuries (eye, jaw.) Her airway nearly collapsed, but fortunately rescuers were able to keep it clear. Had she had a full face helmet on with similar injuries they would be faced with two choices - hope her airway stayed intact on its own (it probably would not have) or pull her hemlet off to get access.

In serious, life threatening situations, a full face helmet may be a liability, especially if it must be removed without your assistance to deal with a problematic airway. Removing a helmet on someone with a compromised spine may result in permanent paralysis.

[skymedic 0]

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Removing a helmet on someone with a compromised spine may result in permanent paralysis.

and not removing it with a patient with a compromised airway equals Death.....Airway first...and always....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[billvon 3,111]

>and not removing it with a patient with a compromised airway equals
> Death.....Airway first...and always....

Oh, I agree. I am glad that in Molly's case we could maintain her airway _without_ risking further spinal injury, which is the plus of an open face helmet in such situations.

[riggerrob 643]

Leather hats are fine for tandem students, but obsolete for everyone else.
We banned soft hats for tandem instructors at Pitt Meadows several years ago after an instructor got half his ear ripped off at opening time. His leather hat didn't suffer much damage, but it took 7 stitches to re-attach his ear!
Besides, leather hats have fallen out of fashion. Frap hats are like round reserves. Just as we would never sell a round reserve to a junior jumper, we would never sell a leather hat to a junior jumper. The only people who should be allowed to jump round reserves or leather hats are those who already have a few hundred jumps on them.

As for the debate as to whether full-face helmets increase the work load for first aiders ... I remember watching Paul pound in at Perris with a broken arm. Paul cracked his full-face helmet, but proudly proclaimed that if he had not been wearing it, he would have broken his face as well!

[billvon 3,111]

>Besides, leather hats have fallen out of fashion.

Yikes! Well, that settles that. We must maintain our fashion currency (unless you're a fat old guy who just does RW of course.)

>I remember watching Paul pound in at Perris with a broken arm. Paul
> cracked his full-face helmet, but proudly proclaimed that if he had
> not been wearing it, he would have broken his face as well!

Ironic you should mention that. This is probably a different incident, but I had a former student named Paul who broke his femur at Perris when his full-face fogged up on final and he couldn't see to flare. Full face helmets give your face better protection for moderate impacts, but there are some drawbacks.

[steve1 5]

Bill,
I'm a fat old belly flyer who only does RW, and I don't even own a Frap hat. (Actually I'm pleasingly plump and quite good looking!) The more I hear about frap hats the less I want one. I still have my old motorcycle helmet though. Steve1

[AggieDave 6]

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when his full-face fogged up on final and he couldn't see to flare.

Have you seen that half lense for the the Boomerang? That would take care of that problem, or atleast keep it from getting that bad.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 2,146]

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>Besides, leather hats have fallen out of fashion.

Yikes! Well, that settles that. We must maintain our fashion currency (unless you're a fat old guy who just does RW of course.)

>I remember watching Paul pound in at Perris with a broken arm. Paul
> cracked his full-face helmet, but proudly proclaimed that if he had
> not been wearing it, he would have broken his face as well!

Ironic you should mention that. This is probably a different incident, but I had a former student named Paul who broke his femur at Perris when his full-face fogged up on final and he couldn't see to flare. Full face helmets give your face better protection for moderate impacts, but there are some drawbacks.

I find this kind of surprising, since I have jumped a full-face (OXYGN) in Chicago at -20F in the winter, and from the cold of 21,000ft into 100% relative humidity in the summer, and in most of the in-between conditions I can think of, and never had a serious fogging problem

[AndyMan 7]

I wear a fullface on certain RW jumps, if I think it's going to be combat-rw. Otherwise I'll wear my open-face with camera. I never wear a frap hat.

Anyways, my point: Our very own Vallerina usually wears a frap-hat. One day a bunch of dz.com'ers decided to put togeather a 10 way with really low experience, so Val rightly decides to put on her Z-1. On one of her first Otter exits, she runs straight into the inside pole, cracking her lense. My first reaction was that she was lucky she had the Z-1, otherwise she would've broken her nose. Her response was that had she been wearing her frap-hat, she would've seen the bar and missed it all togeather.

What's my point? I dunno. It's rare that I have a good one, anyway. I will say tha there's trade-offs between every kind of head protection. I would say that if you really like your frap-hat, maybe skipping the fullface and going for the open face would be a good idea.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>Frap hats do several things for you:
>

In addition to those, they keep your ears from freezing off if you jump during the winter!

Erno