pds 0 #1 November 11, 2002 Is there a written or unwritten consensus as to when an AFF instructor should take eyes off the AFF student?namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonic 0 #2 November 11, 2002 you mean if they're going low or something?----------------------------------- It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #3 November 11, 2002 No, i mean as a rule. What I want to hear is something like this: In general terms and conditions, It is the responsibility of an AFF instructor to watch the student until canopy is coming off the back. Am I over-simplifying?namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonic 0 #4 November 11, 2002 I ain't noo AFF-I, but from the videos I've seen most do (even if one does turn straight after the pull, one stays until the student starts decelerating).----------------------------------- It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #5 November 11, 2002 I think the main side leaves as the student deploys, and the reserve side holds on till the student gets pulled out of his grip. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #6 November 11, 2002 QuoteI think the main side leaves as the student deploys, and the reserve side holds on till the student gets pulled out of his grip. Or until 2000 feet. AFFI's are taught not to chase a student below 200 feet. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #7 November 11, 2002 It depends on the AFF level, too. If the student is on a higher-level AFF (4 and above), the jumpmaster should watch them pull, but after that the student normally will be deploying, and the jumpmaster tracking. Higher than that, there is track and wave-off practice -- the jumpmaster should be a decent distance from the student, because the whole point of track-and-pull is to get some distance. I'm not an active AFF I anymore, so I don't remember specifically which one. But pretty much after AFF 3 (and if the student stays released on 3 even then), the JMs are not attached to the student at pull time. And no, you never chase a student down below 2000. The student is ultimately responsible for pulling their own parachute. On static line, the scariest part is watching a first freefall -- if they don't pull on their own, you CANNOT catch them. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #8 November 11, 2002 Quote AFFI's are taught not to chase a student below 200 feet. I think you left off a zero there, mate! (2000 feet)Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hallur 0 #9 November 11, 2002 AFF instructors should only follow down to 2000 feet after that the student is on his own, if the instructor cant reach down to the student in time you dont want the student to see the Instructor and just wait for a rescue, I read this about 2 weeks ago and dont seem to find it right now, It would be best if we someone with AFF rating to comment. .........Hallur ive edited my error on the altidude When I stop skydiving is the day that I die!!! Hallur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 November 11, 2002 Get a copy of the new IRM from the USPA, it explains things the way they are ment to be done. Basically.... under 2000 feet all rules are off and the Student is on their own. Rules are also different for one JM jumps and 2 JM jumps, but at 2000 feet... the student is responcible for themselfs since the JM's are required to pull. Seeing your JM pull should be a wake up call to pull on your own.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #11 November 11, 2002 The AFF/I's position during the entire skydive for EVERY AFF jump is within arm's reach. Of course, on later levels, when major maneuvers are going on (backloops, tracking, etc). The student needs a little room. Otherwise, it's within arm's reach - especially at pull time. The Main Side AFF/I leaves when the pilot chute launches, turning toward the head and tracking off at 90 degrees. The Reserve Side AFF/I remains in place and rides through the deployment, basically letting the student pull out of his hand. He then turns toward the head as well, and moves out at a 90 degree angle. All of us are taught to rotate slightly toward the feet as the ripcord/pilot chute is being pulled, to avoid getting punched in the face as the right hand comes out, and from getting kicked in the face as the student's feet come up and forward during deployment. This is also why the AFF/Is leave turning toward the head. Ditto on chasing them below 2000 feet. I make it clear to all my students that it is their responsibility to pull the ripcord. The AFF/Is are there to ASSIST. The AAD is there as a mechanical backup only. Great question! Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hallur 0 #12 November 11, 2002 Thanks for clearing that. I obviously got a very bad memory.....Hallur When I stop skydiving is the day that I die!!! Hallur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #13 November 11, 2002 >Is there a written or unwritten consensus as to when an AFF > instructor should take eyes off the AFF student? After he's back at the DZ. An AFF-I should keep an eye on the student from gearup to return to the DZ. In terms of hands-on in freefall, main side keeps grips until the PC is launched, reserve side keeps grips until deployment takes the student out of his hands. On higher levels, main side stays nearby until student starts to decelerate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #14 November 12, 2002 QuoteAFFI's are taught not to chase a student below 200 feet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you left off a zero there, mate! (2000 feet) Oops! Yup, typo. My bad. No donut. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #15 November 12, 2002 Quote The AAD is there as a mechanical backup only. And a backup that doesn't always work. Here's a question, I realize the importance of educating the student on their gear, but do they need to know about the AAD? Is it distracting? When do you (JMs) tell your students about its existence? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #16 November 12, 2002 QuoteWhen do you (JMs) tell your students about its existence? I don't remember learning about the ADD until after my FJC, but I must have been briefed on it and just forgotten it amid the more important information about saving my life and stuff. Sitting in on an FJC recently, I liked the way an instructor taught about the RSL (not an AAD, but another backup device not to be relied upon). He showed it to them, told them what it did, then told them not to rely on it. Then, to underscore his point, he told this (actually really funny) story about a guy at his old DZ who cutaway from a malfunction at 3K, then waited...and waited...and waited...then finally had a Cypres fire. Later, on the ground, they wanted to know what happened, and he told them he'd been waiting for his RSL to activate the reserve. "That must of been one long [expletive] RSL," the instructor told the FJC students.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falngrl 0 #17 November 12, 2002 *** pds, Please don't do this, I know where you are going with this question. It was no one's fault. It was just her time so let her go in peace. Keep your spirits up for her, I'm sure she would've rather you delt with it that way rather than try to place a blame. Blue skies and happy faces, thats what this sport is all about Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #18 November 12, 2002 QuoteIs it distracting? When do you (JMs) tell your students about its existence? I was taught about it in a very superficial way - no details, just a broad overveiw of it - in my FJC. Same with RSL. I knew it was there, I knew what it was supposed to do, and I knew that it didn't always do that. I knew that it was a last resort only, and that it wasn't an option for me to wait for it instead of pulling silver (with an RSL, that wouldn't have happened, but like I said, it was superficial). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 November 12, 2002 Quoteit was superficial As it really should be. It is very very easy to overload a student with information. For a FJC, they need the information that will save their lives and being a foundation in which to train on, stuff like why/how a RSL/Cypress work will come later on in their student progression, as well as how to operate both safely. Giving a FJC student too much information can send them into overload, which can and will make them sort of glaze over, not retaining the information that is very important for their first jump. Is every student like this? No, but a good majority are.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #20 November 12, 2002 I concur with Wendy W. It depends on the AFF Level. I also believe that it is up to the instructor. You really don't know what you are going to do until faced with the situation. Many would probably chase until practical. I'm in that camp. But when does it become an issue and your life is danger? I grew up surfing and if I saw a beginner having trouble in huge surf, would I go after them? I don't know, but probably. A MFF-I friend of mine broke his back while making a "save" in the wind tunnel at Ft. Bragg. That was gutsy. Get well soon, Shindig! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #21 November 12, 2002 QuoteAs it really should be. Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree - as it should be. My use of the term "superficial" was not meant derogatively in any way...a pure use of the word. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 November 12, 2002 I was agreeing and expounding. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #23 November 12, 2002 Quote I was agreeing and expounding. [Smile] Ahhhh....well then, expound away!Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #24 November 12, 2002 Quote *** pds, Please don't do this, I know where you are going with this question. It was no one's fault. It was just her time so let her go in peace. Keep your spirits up for her, I'm sure she would've rather you delt with it that way rather than try to place a blame. Blue skies and happy faces, thats what this sport is all about It's ok, Nancy. This is an important question. I am placing no blame anywhere for anything. Just asking a question. Blue Skies and Big Smiles. p.s. you should use the spell checkernamaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
