Auryn 0 #1 November 11, 2002 Hello all ! it's been 2 weeks since this happened to me, and I've decided to post what happened so others can learn from my mistake.. I know I have. I never thought I could go low.. I'm ALWAYS altitude aware, I have an audible, and have always pulled at my intended altitude with a nice healthy track beforehand. it was jump number 210, I was doing a 3 way freefly with a a couple of friends, it was one of the guy's 100th jump. I set my audible to 4500 for break off, we wanted a lot of time to get away from each other since we were lower experience.. I have done about 20 or so freefly jumps and can keep my freefall speed up, although not always perfectly stable.. I still tend to fly on my knees.. but I can stay fast and not cork. we launched a 2 way horny gorilla w/ the third guy following us out... the Horny gorilla picked up a lot of speed (180 on the pro track) so the third guy could not keep up. mistake 1. we tried to move into a linked sit after the HG started to break, and we held it for a bit and then it let go. I couldn't find the third guy, but the other person in the HG with me was right in front of me. I worked on my sit and staying close to him (he was in a stand) and keeping my heading off flight line (i've had some back sliding issues.. I wanted to stay safe.) I was keeping the sit great and not back sliding at all.. wooohoooo !! I haven't checked my altitude yet at this point. next thing I see is the guy that's still with me go belly and pull. I immediately thought we were a little low, so I went right to my belly and was going to check my alti.. BUT when I slowed down, I heard my audible giving the 2nd PULL signal !!! my brain immediately went into OH SH@T mode (I think we've all been there before for other reasons:)) I didn't waste any time checking my altimeter. I pulled, no track or anything. as I was pulling, my audible flat lined. once I got my canopy, I looked at my altimeter. 1100 feet. I covered my cutaway handle with one hand ready to chop if I felt my reserve go off my back.. thanks cypres for NOT firing ! turned it around and was the first to land from the load. Here's what I learned. I mostly belly fly, and now know that I have to watch even more vigilantly for the shorter free fall time of free fly jumps. I had done 2 RW dives earlier that day, so my internal clock was set to RW speeds, and I didn't remind myself to ignore it. I intentionally didn't check my altimeter during the jump because I didn't want to screw up my sit fly. (JUST PLAIN DUMB) Im going to get a second audible, I couldn't hear mine because of the higher freefall speed though break off. hopefully two will be loud enough to get me faster warning if this happens again. Im going to make a mud flap mount for my alti for when I am freeflying. I hope someone can learn from this, I definately learned that I can screw up just as easily as the next guy.. Blue Skies !!! STAY SAFE ! Bryan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #2 November 11, 2002 Thanks for sharing. One question. What kind of helmet do you have your audible mounted in? My point is what is a second audible going to do you if you didn't hear the first one even though it was working? It may be a matter of taping the outside of the helmet (if it's a pro-tec) so the whistle of freefall is blocked somewhat. Chris Schindler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #3 November 11, 2002 QuoteIm going to make a mud flap mount for my alti for when I am freeflying. I'd advise against this. Checking a wrist alti (frequently!) will make you a better freeflyer. It will also get you in the habit of using your arms to present to take a grip or block to protect yourself. I got taught 'clock, block, dock' - three very good things you will learn if you wear (and use!) a wrist alti. Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #4 November 11, 2002 Auryn, It's really easy to loose track of altitude, when you're busy trying to do your stuff when jumping with others. I almost went in back in the olden days when I was jumping with a group who weren't checking altimeters, or anything else because we were all so focussed on what we were doing. Audibles hadn't been invented yet and no one had an automatic opener. My sense of time told me we must be getting low, but I was depending on the others to signal break off. Since I was the last one into the formation I didn't want to take the time to check my altimeter on my chest, and was busy focussing on my slot. As a result we could have all died. I still remember the story of two jumpers who held a two way all the way into the ground. Today audibles and automatic openers help, but I learned the hard way not to depend too much on others to keep track of altitude. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 1 #5 November 12, 2002 We are all responsible for our actions/jumps. You can't make an audible (or anyone else) responsible for your altitude awareness. I you depend on someone/thing else you WILL be disappointed eventually. That applies to your rigger/packer for your equipment and the pilot for your spot and the canopy manufacturer for your landing. You are responsible no matter what they do or don't do. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #6 November 12, 2002 Quote I set my audible to 4500 for break off, we wanted a lot of time to get away from each other since we were lower experience. I know you know this now but at higher freefly speeds initiating break-off at 4500 doesn't really give you that much time, especially if you've 'lost' someone and need to check your airspace. Glad you made it ok GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chief 0 #7 November 12, 2002 When free flying, I ususally set my audible at 5,500 minimum. Helps compensate for faster fall rate. Sometimes, depending on size of group at 6,000. Just my 2 pennies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auryn 0 #8 November 12, 2002 QuoteWe are all responsible for our actions/jumps. You can't make an audible (or anyone else) responsible for your altitude awareness. I you depend on someone/thing else you WILL be disappointed eventually. That applies to your rigger/packer for your equipment and the pilot for your spot and the canopy manufacturer for your landing. You are responsible no matter what they do or don't do. I think you've summed up the leason I learned quite nicely with this :) you said it better than I could. my mistake was not failing to hear my audible, the mistake was not being aware of my altitude myself.. the audible is just a back up, and I had always anticipated breakoff before my audible goes off.. it's sort of a "below 5000 feet now, getting close.. getting closer.. beep ! breakoff !" sort of thing.. not being in that state of mind is just inviting problems. with failing to hear my audible it resulted in me saddling out waaaaaay too close to ground. a newbie asked me a while ago "what do you think the single most important piece of safety equipment in skydiving is ?" and I replied "my brain and my knowledge.. and always trying to expand it." and then I go and do this the next weekend. doh. thanks for the input about audible settings, and the recommendation to keep my alti on my wrist.. I will do both. and for the other question, I was wearing a Z1, so I think a second audible would be louder.. does anyone have this configuration ?? can you tell me how it works ? Blue Ones ! Bryan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #9 November 12, 2002 [I was wearing a Z1, so I think a second audible would be louder.. does anyone have this configuration ?? can you tell me how it works ? ] I use 2 audibles in my Z1 and it works well - a Protrack (set to loud) in the Z1 pocket and the "old type" of Time Out (because it's louder than the new one) velcro'd to the inside of the helmet shell on the other side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #10 November 12, 2002 Quote I think you've summed up the leason I learned quite nicely with this :) you said it better than I could. John B, you're the shiznitz...and yes, that's a complimentCiels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #11 November 13, 2002 Quote and for the other question, I was wearing a Z1, so I think a second audible would be louder.. does anyone have this configuration ?? can you tell me how it works ? i used to have pro-track set to low in my z1 and pro-dytter that had scotch tape over the tweeter because it was too loud. :) now i have two pro-dytters with scotch tape on them. i talked to L&B and they say that scotch tape won't affect the proper functioning of the dytter if anyone wonders. stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
