Hooknswoop 19 #26 July 18, 2003 QuoteThe major problem is to have people understanding that Speeders HAVE to go first... They fall much quicker, don't usually pull very high and mainly have quite small canopies... Faster fallers should go after belly flyers for jump runs into the wind. Pull altitudes and canopy size or irrelevant. There has been a lot of discussion on this topic. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #27 July 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe major problem is to have people understanding that Speeders HAVE to go first... They fall much quicker, don't usually pull very high and mainly have quite small canopies... Faster fallers should go after belly flyers for jump runs into the wind. Pull altitudes and canopy size or irrelevant. There has been a lot of discussion on this topic. Hook ******** even if they fall at twice the speed and leave them with a good 25 seconds between pulls ? got to get adapted at every DZ's regulations... remember that every DZ has NOT got the surface of a US DZ. Some DZ's have small landing areas, and I think you also need to have separation between faster and slower canopies etc... not to have everybody landing at the same time, don't U think so ???---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #28 July 18, 2003 >even if they fall at twice the speed and leave them with a good 25 > seconds between pulls ? Yes. You need horizontal separation; vertical separation doesn't work. >remember that every DZ has NOT got the surface of a US DZ. Ever been to the Ranch in NY or Lebanon, Maine? Tiny DZ's surrounded by trees. >Some > DZ's have small landing areas, and I think you also need to have > separation between faster and slower canopies etc... not to have > everybody landing at the same time, don't U think so ??? That's secondary to safe separation. In any case, if that's a problem, ask the faster canopies to land first and ask the slower canopies to hang in brakes to allow them to land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #29 July 18, 2003 Quoteeven if they fall at twice the speed and leave them with a good 25 seconds between pulls ? got to get adapted at every DZ's regulations... remember that every DZ has NOT got the surface of a US DZ. Some DZ's have small landing areas, and I think you also need to have separation between faster and slower canopies etc... not to have everybody landing at the same time, don't U think so ??? Yes. If they pull a little high, it does happen, the belly fliers that got out after them will be directly over the top of them, increasing the danger of a collision. If one of the belly fliers has a malfunction or pulls low, it will increase the possibility of a collision. Vertical separation means nothing. The landing area should not make a difference in exit order, nor should canopy size. Exit order is determined to avoid free-fall/canopy collisions. If the jumpers flying faster canopies can't maintain separation, they shouldn't be flying smaller canopies. It isn't difficult to stage landings, even with different sized canopies, and it shouldn't be a problem anyway. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopme 0 #30 July 18, 2003 Exit order is designed for maximum horizontal separation, not vertical. The throw from the aircraft (Belly having less and free flyers having more) primarily determines the order . Brian Germain has an excellent explanation of this. I it saw some time ago on rec.skydiving (maybe Jan/Feb of 2000) , maybe it was also posted here, take a look at it. All the principles he discusses there still apply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,113 #31 July 18, 2003 QuoteExit order is designed for maximum horizontal separation, not vertical. The throw from the aircraft (Belly having less and free flyers having more) primarily determines the order . Brian Germain has an excellent explanation of this. I it saw some time ago on rec.skydiving (maybe Jan/Feb of 2000) , maybe it was also posted here, take a look at it. All the principles he discusses there still apply. www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/ and go to "Resources" for a comprehensive explanation including interactive simulation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,113 #32 July 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe major problem is to have people understanding that Speeders HAVE to go first... They fall much quicker, don't usually pull very high and mainly have quite small canopies... Faster fallers should go after belly flyers for jump runs into the wind. Pull altitudes and canopy size or irrelevant. There has been a lot of discussion on this topic. Hook ******** even if they fall at twice the speed and leave them with a good 25 seconds between pulls ? got to get adapted at every DZ's regulations... remember that every DZ has NOT got the surface of a US DZ. Some DZ's have small landing areas, and I think you also need to have separation between faster and slower canopies etc... not to have everybody landing at the same time, don't U think so ??? If the landing area is so small that there is a danger of landing off when you allow adequate exit separation for safety, then you should ask for a second pass, not compromise safety.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
