riggerrob 643 #26 August 20, 2003 A t Pitt Meadows the rules are follow the first guy down. Normally he lands into the wind. If there is no wind, then he is supposed to land to the west. Hint the western edge of the landing area has the fewest obstacles. If people don't follow the pattern, we REMIND them of the pattern, but I still see far too many people landing across the pattern because they are afraid of landing cross-wind or down-wind. Does landing direction really matter when there is only 3 or 4 knots of wind? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QTPi 0 #27 August 20, 2003 QuoteSo, have a plan. Try to fly the plan. But if you see a bad situation developing then use the alternate. If you can't use the alternate then do what you have to save your life and get ready to talk about it later. Good advise! Seems to me a little communication before the load goes up could go a long way. -- A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. -Oliver Wendel Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #28 August 20, 2003 Not at all. In fact it never fails to baffle me why so many people are terrified of a 5 mph crosswind, or even downwind for that matter. I see it at our DZ all the time (where we try and set a landing direction prior to take off to avoid confusion - we have a relatively small area) and people freak out if we set the landing direction crosswind - we have a rectangular landing area with obstacles all around it so on low wind days we try and set the landing direction so as to give people the longest area to land in, in case of a blown set up. One only needs to read the incident reports and see how many people kill/hurt themselves by a low turn instead of taking a cross/down wind. I am of the mindset that if you can't land your canopy safely in any direction, then you probably should be on something bigger...but that's just my opinion. As for the 1st guy sets the landing direction...well...you can only know which way they're landing if they fly a consitent pattern, something which most people seem incapable of learning. Instead they zig zag across the sky making it impossible to determine which direction they're going next. If you're on a bigger canopy you have the luxury of changing your pattern at 200 feet. Smaller canopies often don't have that, especially when the landing area is surrounded by trees as ours is. Just my thoughts. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #29 August 21, 2003 QuoteNot at all. In fact it never fails to baffle me why so many people are terrified of a 5 mph crosswind, or even downwind for that matter. So very true. I currently do most of my jumping at a DZ where the experienced landing area is usually (4 times out of 5) subject to a crosswind. I've never had a problem with it and have even done some intentional down-winders in lighter (5-8mph) winds. No matter where one jumps, it's better to try it out before hand so people can realize that it's not the scary thing they think it is. Too many people I have seen are way to fixated with being perfectly into the wind, some at the cost of overall safety.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #30 August 21, 2003 QuoteQuoteNot at all. In fact it never fails to baffle me why so many people are terrified of a 5 mph crosswind, or even downwind for that matter. So very true. I currently do most of my jumping at a DZ where the experienced landing area is usually (4 times out of 5) subject to a crosswind. I've never had a problem with it and have even done some intentional down-winders in lighter (5-8mph) winds. No matter where one jumps, it's better to try it out before hand so people can realize that it's not the scary thing they think it is. Too many people I have seen are way to fixated with being perfectly into the wind, some at the cost of overall safety.\ What ought to be is not necessarily what is. I can land crosswind and downwind just fine, but prefer not to be obliged to do it by a moron who can't read the windsock. Many don't like it at all, especially older skydivers whose running speed is not what it used to be (we are not all in the 18 - 25 age group). You can preach all you want, but kinetic energy goes with v^2, and the potential for injury in a downwind landing IS higher than for an upwind landing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #31 August 21, 2003 QuoteI can land crosswind and downwind just fine, but prefer not to be obliged to do it by a moron who can't read the windsock. Many don't like it at all, especially older skydivers whose running speed is not what it used to be (we are not all in the 18 - 25 age group). You can preach all you want, but kinetic energy goes with v^2, and the potential for injury in a downwind landing IS higher than for an upwind landing. I don't disagree about velocity, but I'd still rather have a whole load land downwind that have people flying towards one another (you can do the v^2 calc on that one for yourself). At our dz we seem to have the most success predetermining a landing direction on the plane. If the jumper does not like the landing direction, we have other areas they can land in for that load or until it's changed to suit them better. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #32 August 22, 2003 QuoteYou can preach all you want, but kinetic energy goes with v^2, and the potential for injury in a downwind landing IS higher than for an upwind landing. And the kinetic energy from someone who freaks out when they realize they aren't on the windline and whips a 180 too low is very high indeed. John, I'm not saying everyone should rush out and start landing downwind, but on a low wind day it is advisable to try it (and crosswind, too) to get an idea of what it will be like. That also goes along with practicing flare & flat turns as well. Of course, if one is going to try that, make sure manifest and everyone else on the load knows your intentions beforehand.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
webracer 0 #33 August 22, 2003 Generally these days we are establishing landing direction in the plane, (whenever there could be doubt). This works about 90%. I am not sure if it is people that don't listen, can't steer their canopy, won't make a 45 deg. correction on final, or what. Usually those crossing the landing direction are doing so by 45 degrees more or less. Slowly we are correcting this, but I am sure this will never be 100%. We do land a bit crosswind where the landing area requires it (triangulated), but we are mostly into the wind. We only set a downwind final when ground winds are 0-3mph or so (negligible) (again because of the triangle and those going long). Set up a system for your particular DZ and landing area, keep to it and set the example, it has an impact. We had a swoop club meet where the course was setup about 110 degrees off the windline (cross/downwind). This had a positive impact on the low-timers watching because they saw that not only can you land like this, you can do so accurately. They saw the canopies crabbing all the way through the course and still not hitting the blades. Many people commented during that event that they learned something about not having to be directly into the wind to land safely and accurately. It was a positive for landing safety training. TroyTroy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
