WFFC 1 #1 April 6, 2003 Does you DZ have a drug testing policy for staff members? If you don't know, don't answer. Also please list your DZ if there is a current policy in place. Not looking for the right/wrong opinion, just does one exist or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarge 0 #2 April 6, 2003 Yes, SDC. Drug and Alcohol; starting this year. - how do you test for alcohol? as a screen; like for drugs?? (other than obviously a breathalizer) .-- I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #3 April 6, 2003 During boogies that are ran by our club, everyone that are manifesting have to take a breathalizer test on the first two loads.. But this is only during boogies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #4 April 6, 2003 Despite what Roger Nelson implied in his last email, yes. I wonder if he ever wonders why so many people dislike him? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #5 April 6, 2003 None yet, if the S&TA or owner thinks someone is using while jumping I personally dont see a problem with them asking the person (staff or otherwise) to submit to a drug test. Catching the fools who are not content with the high associated with skydiving and need to suppliment it with drugs/alcohol would suit me just fine. our sport suffers from predudice from outsiders enough without idiots dying or getting injured because of impaired judgement. BUUTT by the same token...What a person does on their non-jumping days or nights shouldnt be held against them for skydiving. Just my opinion bit more than you asked for. Roy They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #6 April 7, 2003 QuoteDespite what Roger Nelson implied in his last email, yes. I wonder if he ever wonders why so many people dislike him? _Am Despite what you believe Andy the world does not revolve around SDC and Hinckley. And he never named Hinckley. There are other DZs in the area beside those two you know? Plus I believe many staff members travel from one end of the country to the other seeking work so it's not all about local politics. If you don't like what Roger says then don't read his weekly updates. It's by subscription. I don't judge Hinckley on whether they have a drug testing policy or not. I could care less really. I'll still jump there. Hope to make more than two jumps there like last year. Why do so many people dislike him? I'm sure there are a million reasons to dislike anyone in this world. Take your pick. But I suspect that no matter what Roger does or says that you will never see it as anything good. Well...that's just the way it's gonna be. When a DZ or DZO tries to improve or change it's seen as negative. That's too bad. Because I really like this change in the DZ. I think it will be something very positive for the operation. Chris Schindler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 April 7, 2003 He never named anyone, but seeing as it's essentially the only operating dropzone within 50 miles, the suggestion was quite clear. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #8 April 7, 2003 I find it interesting that the people that "use" are the ones against it...and the people who dont "use" are the people who dont mind... seems alot of people are worried about not being able to work or jump at places.... Andy, if ya dont like Roger or his beliefs dont jump at SDC and dont receive his Email's...pretty easy really... I personaly like what I am seeing at SDC, it is a much needed improvement. I wish other DZ's in the country besides SDC and SDA would do this...... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #9 April 7, 2003 QuoteI find it interesting that the people that "use" are the ones against it...and the people who dont "use" are the people who dont mind... Your conclusion is incorrect."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #10 April 7, 2003 I should have stated...that the majority of each group feel that way.... how anyone can be against instructors and pilots getting drug tested is beyond me...in my line of work peoples lives are in my hands...and I get drug tested. I have no issue what so ever. But then again...I dont use and never have used illegal drugs. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #11 April 7, 2003 I live in Chicago and last time I checked, Millennium is the closest DZ to me, so not sure what you are talking about._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #12 April 7, 2003 No mandatory drug testing at Raeford. Bear in mind that many of the Staff are military and receive random drug testing routinely. It just goes with the territory. Personally I would have absolutely no objection to testing by any organization. I have been tested for 19 years.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #13 April 7, 2003 Quote No mandatory drug testing at Raeford. Bear in mind that many of the Staff are military and receive random drug testing routinely. It just goes with the territory. yeah....but it's amazing what some of those guys can get by with under the tests....PM if ya want more details.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #14 April 7, 2003 Now that I'm not running on 3 hours sleep, I'll clarify. Suggesting I not read this emails are pretty lame. By the same token, you should just not read what I have to say, either. Nor should anyone else who doesn't like what I say read it. My bigger issue is that I saw the announcement as nothing more then attempt to combat a perceived drug problem by trying to bring other dropzones down to the level of SDC. I saw the annoucement only in that light - attempts to hide criticism in the idea that "drugs are everywhere, but just not here anymore". If his solution to a perceived drug problem is little more then to bring others down to his level, then I seriously doubt anything serious is being done. That said, only time will tell if this announcement is based on substance, or just name calling. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #15 April 7, 2003 QuoteI live in Chicago and last time I checked, Millennium is the closest DZ to me, so not sure what you are talking about. Uhh...I hope he wasn't suggesting there was drug use at Millennium. Bob is way too anal (which is a good thing) to allow daytime recreation (a huge reason that Purdue took their skydiving club there.) I can understand that taking blood (and to a certan degree urine) may be invasive. I don't see why an instructor/staff/etc should have a problem with a breathalizer test or with the saliva test for drugs recently taken (that one tests for certain drugs taken within the past 8 hours or so...I think....) If you don't like getting drug tested, peer pressure those who make it necessary into quitting.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #16 April 7, 2003 QuoteYour conclusion is incorrect. Agreed. I believe that people just don't want to submit to the test under the 'invasion of privacy' guise. The assumption is that if they're asked to submit to a test and they refuse, they must be on something.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #17 April 7, 2003 QuoteMy bigger issue is that I saw the announcement as nothing more then attempt to combat a perceived drug problem How many fatalities did SDC have last year that they found drugs in their system??? At least one instructor and I believe that there was another non-staff that had shit in his system. I honestly dont particularly care wether a DZ has a drugtesting policy. I think that we are adults and we should act like responsible ones. I know that can be tough sometimes, but this is a job (if you are working in skydiving). If you are not working in it, whats the point of getting high before jumps? Is skydiving that boring that a person needs to get high to make it better??? I think that person should take a step back and take a look at what is really going on. Anyways, back to my original point. If Roger Nelson is doing this to combat a "percieved" drug problem, than good. He has one of the busiest DZs in the country, he doesnt need to take flak from the whuffo community or the anti-drug skydiving community either. It makes good business sense and he is a smart business man. What would constitute a "percieved" drug problem on a DZ, anyway??? Does zero fatalities w/ drugs in their system equal no drug problem...no. But does one fatality with accute amounts of drugs in their system constitute a problem...I am sure that some people would argue "yes", especially if its an instructor. Two fatalities...then you may start to see a trend. Again, I am not particularly for or against a drug testing policy, because I believe that people should be responsible for their actions and the safety of those around them. If we dont regulate ourselves, someone else will...which would be all bad. So I am not sure wether Roger Nelson believes in the drug testing policy. Either way I personally think that its just a sound business decision Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #18 April 7, 2003 QuoteQuoteYour conclusion is incorrect. Agreed. I believe that people just don't want to submit to the test under the 'invasion of privacy' guise. The assumption is that if they're asked to submit to a test and they refuse, they must be on something. Gee Michael, why don't you just shoot yourself in the foot and be done with it? You just proved my point! Instead of "Innocent until Proven Guilty", your statement is "Guilty Until Proven Innocent". Sugar coat it any way you want, it still tastes like shit. My word that I am not on anything should be good enough. Unless you have cause to suspect otherwise, do not ask me to submit to a drug screen; if I refuse (thereby going against my employment agreement), fire my ass, but when I pass the drug screen, what are you going to do to repair the breech of trust you just exhibited? Note: the "you" used above is a generic term, not directed at the esteemed WFFC. I see no reason to break Rule #1 even though I feel strongly about the issue. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #19 April 7, 2003 Quoteyeah....but it's amazing what some of those guys can get by with under the tests....PM if ya want more details.... Exactly why a lot of people are against them. They're unreliable, easily beaten, and often show false positives. If someone doesn't use anything they should still be leary of submitting to random testing. You should be assumed to be innocent as is the foundation of our justice system. You gain nothing by testing clean, you should have been assumed to be clean in the first place. But if you score a false positive, it could ruin your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tf15 0 #20 April 7, 2003 QuoteHe never named anyone, but seeing as it's essentially the only operating dropzone within 50 miles, the suggestion was quite clear. _Am Kankakee is within 50 miles. Three times is enemy action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #21 April 7, 2003 Skydive Chicago is implementing a policy this year. I believe from another post, DiverDriver said that one of the fatalities was substance related, the other not. There are other DZs that already have a policy in place, others that are implementing one now so this isn't a pick on SDC message. Mile Hi Skydiving in Colorado is implenting a policy this year. I have a short list of other DZs that either have one in place or are looking at doing one that I might post later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tf15 0 #22 April 7, 2003 QuoteQuoteyeah....but it's amazing what some of those guys can get by with under the tests....PM if ya want more details.... Exactly why a lot of people are against them. They're unreliable, easily beaten, and often show false positives. If someone doesn't use anything they should still be leary of submitting to random testing. You should be assumed to be innocent as is the foundation of our justice system. You gain nothing by testing clean, you should have been assumed to be clean in the first place. But if you score a false positive, it could ruin your life. That would have relevance if it were a government mandated test and you would be prosecuted for failing it. It is not relevant for a private business decision. If you (generic) don't like it, just don't apply for a position there. Three times is enemy action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #23 April 7, 2003 QuoteNote: the "you" used above is a generic term, not directed at the esteemed WFFC. I see no reason to break Rule #1 even though I feel strongly about the issue. No harm no foul...I re-read my post and I had some blatant errors...Will edit when I get a chance - server just crashed at work... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #24 April 7, 2003 I didnt mean to pick on SDC at all. I know of that one incident with the instructor at SDC, but I could have sworn that there was another fatality that happened last summer where there was remnants of way more than just grass in their system. I thought that it was at SDC, but I must be mistaken. I tried to do a search on the incidents forum but the history stops in the July timeframe. Maybe it was somewhere else, but that is irrelevant really. The argument is still valid wether it is at one particular DZ or a group of them. There are an average of 30 fatalities a year, give or take and at least two of them tested positive for drugs, that is only what we know of and that have been publicized. Thats a pretty good/bad percentage, depending on how you look at it. Unfortunate really. I was thinking in smaller terms of the local community and how it affects the local DZ, but it certainly affects the sport of skydiving as a whole. So I guess I still ask the question:How many drug related skydiving deaths constitute a drug problem for the skydiving industry, percieved or real??? I also ask:What are we, as skydivers going to do about it and how many more drug related deaths do we have to endure until the FAA or some other organization starts governing our sport??? I think that we need to look at the bigger picture than politics at local DZs. Was the other fatality at Rantoul??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #25 April 7, 2003 QuoteThat would have relevance if it were a government mandated test and you would be prosecuted for failing it. It is not relevant for a private business decision. If you (generic) don't like it, just don't apply for a position there. That's a little simplistic considering how pervasive random testing is. If I refuse to submit to random drug testing and am not hired because of it, I see that as being discriminated against because I believe in my 4th amendment rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
