How do you flare?

[Push 0]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I want to hear all the tips and tricks from the new folks. So, how should a canopy be flared? F-111 vs ZP, low/high winds, turbulence, accuracy, swoop, anything. My question is really about the difference between F-111 flares and ZP flares, as well as what exactly should I "feel" in the flare.

How would you flare a 220sqft F-111 7 cell? How about a 160sqft ZP 7 cell? A 150sqft ZP 9 cell?

Thanks in advance everyone.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[billvon 3,095]

For a canopy that will not plane out (i.e. a Raven I at 1:1) - flare smoothly all the way down at the right altitude (5 feet or so.)

For a canopy that will plane out - begin the flare smoothly at 3-4 feet. Stop your vertical motion a few inches above the ground. Keep that altitude by adding more and more toggle. Keep flying the canopy; use small brake inputs as neccessary to keep the canopy flying straight. Put your feet down when you run out of flare and the canopy can no longer keep you in the air.

[spidermonky 0]

Very carefully.
Bill, I am a newbie and you know a lot more than me BUT isn't beginning the flare at 3-4 feet leaving little room for error? I've always been told to start the flare slowly at around 10-15 feet and attempt to maintain a low altitude (less than 3 feet) as you finish the flare.

[Push 0]

Oooh, that's new. I've always been told to flare at man height, that is, 6-10 feet. Our flare has always been "slam the breaks and hold it down", but now I'm finding that that doesn't always work

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[billvon 3,095]

>BUT isn't beginning the flare at 3-4 feet leaving little room for error?

Definitely; you have to work down to that altitude. Much of learning to land is learning the "picture" of what a good flare altitude is, what it looks like when your feet are 6 inches off the ground etc.

>I've always been told to start the flare slowly at around 10-15 feet and
>attempt to maintain a low altitude (less than 3 feet) as you finish the flare.

Starting the flare gradually at 10-15 feet works on larger canopies. I'd break my legs if I tried that with mine. One of the purposes of learning to finish the flare very close to the ground is if you ever have to land downwind, being able to put yourself on the ground with very little vertical speed will go a long way towards keeping you from getting hurt.

[beowulf 1]

Quote

For a canopy that will not plane out (i.e. a Raven I at 1:1) - flare smoothly all the way down at the right altitude (5 feet or so.)

For a canopy that will plane out - begin the flare smoothly at 3-4 feet. Stop your vertical motion a few inches above the ground. Keep that altitude by adding more and more toggle. Keep flying the canopy; use small brake inputs as neccessary to keep the canopy flying straight. Put your feet down when you run out of flare and the canopy can no longer keep you in the air.

I have been working on flaring exactly like you are saying and have found that spot where I get my Sabre2 150 to plane out so that I have to pick up my feet to miss the ground and skim a little and then at the last second flare harder and get the canopy to surge and pick me up and set me right on my feet so that I dont have to walk or run at all. That has been my perfect flare. It doesn't happen like that all of the time. Some times I wait too long and don't have enough speed to pop me up at the end.

[aneblett 0]

Quote

if you ever have to land downwind, being able to put yourself on the ground with very little vertical speed will go a long way towards keeping you from getting hurt.

Or all the way from keeping you from getting hurt. I did a Dw landing on my birthday a few weeks ago and it was the softest DW I had ever done (Yes I have done a few, once by accident, and a few on purpose (stood most of those up)), not a scratch, ache or pain. I was most impressed with myself.

AGe

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[bunge 0]

when i transitioned from a manta to a sabre 210, the DZO (whos rig i was jumping) told me:

play witht he canopy up high. find the point where it planes out, and then find its stall point.

when you are on final, dont flare where you used to. Wait till you think you are about to slam into the ground, count to 2, then plane out, when you feel the sinking, flare the rest of the way.

its been working for me ever since!

BUNGE

I don't hate them, I just like us better.

[spidermonky 0]

Quote

Starting the flare gradually at 10-15 feet works on larger canopies. I'd break my legs if I tried that with mine. One of the purposes of learning to finish the flare very close to the ground is if you ever have to land downwind, being able to put yourself on the ground with very little vertical speed will go a long way towards keeping you from getting hurt.

Thanks for clarifying. My thinking is still that it is better to flare 5 feet too high, than 5 feet too low. At least when starting out with a lightly loaded canopy.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Scott Millers answer:
Start at about twice your height. Speed and style of flaring depends on the canopy type. Flare to the "sweet spot" then continue flare as needed (ie speed up or slow down flair).

Smaller canopies this does not apply (like my 96) and flare should start higher.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[PhillyKev 0]

I used to flare at around 5 feet and my landings were less than spectacular. After taking the canopy course at Perris the first comment from JS was "flaring way too late, very common problem". Now I start it about twice as high and have much smoother landings with a longer glide (wouldn't call what I do a swoop). I don't think it's necessarily the height where you start, but rather the amount of input and lift you generate at the different heights. In other words, starts out slow high to reduce descent and than flare speed increases to plane out when I get down to the ground (so called 2 stage flare).

Another tip I picked up that made a big difference is when coming in on final, don't just leave my arms all the way up. If your brakes are the right length there should be slack when you do that so you can grab your front risers without deflecting the tail. I do have some slack in my brakes so when I'm at about 100' I take up that slack, not enough to pull the tail, but just so that when I do start my flare, I'm actually flaring and not just pulling on loose lines.

[Jimbo 0]

I was having trouble with my landings a few years ago and this little rambling by Dan Preston made a lot of sense to me. Maybe it will help you too.

balance & canopy control exercises......

Edit: I use the ideas presented in Dan's post every time I demo a new canopy. It helps. It really does.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[motherhucker 0]

Quote

So, how should a canopy be flared?

COMPLETELY

[dixieskydiver 0]

Also a little wisdom from my instructors:

Even if you are just a little bit off the ground, keep holding your toggles down. Many many people, especially new jumpers let the toggles up a little just as they are about to touch down. This is a bad habit to get into, and I think you will have better landings if you remember this tip.

Dixie
HISPA #56 Facil Rodriguez
"Scientific research has shown that 60% of the time, it works every time."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Also a little wisdom from my instructors:

Even if you are just a little bit off the ground, keep holding your toggles down. Many many people, especially new jumpers let the toggles up a little just as they are about to touch down. This is a bad habit to get into, and I think you will have better landings if you remember this tip.

With all due respect (likely because you didn't know this), but you're telling a guy (MotherHucker) who's got thousands of jumps (and is a Base Jumper) how to flare.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Kris 0]

Quote

With all due respect (likely because you didn't know this), but you're telling a guy (MotherHucker) who's got thousands of jumps (and is a Base Jumper) how to flare.

I didn't read it that way. I read it as an addition to what Motherhucker posted. And you know what, Dixie is right.

I see people let their toggles up before their feet are on the ground every weekend. It certainly doesn't help their landings.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I see people let their toggles up before their feet are on the ground every weekend. It certainly doesn't help their landings.

This definitely is a problem for new jumpers (I remember doing it at least once when I was an AFF student).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Push 0]

Now that you mention it, I think it's a consistent problem with my flare. I've tried the cobaltdan balance post a couple of hours ago on a 260 7-cell. Without wraps, it planed out max input. I couldn't stall it at all without wrapping. I started the flare early, a little too early, but I stood it up. This is actually really helpful guys, thanks.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[kurt 0]

the flaring altitude depends on the wind speed at the time of landing.In high winds, 15Ft is way to high.In low winds, 3 Ft is to low.
For F111 student canopys, try the "3 seconds rule".
The point you think(and see) 1,2,3 ground.
You start flaring the canopy. and the hight is gonna be always different.

[dixieskydiver 0]

[reply
With all due respect (likely because you didn't know this), but you're telling a guy (MotherHucker) who's got thousands of jumps (and is a Base Jumper) how to flare.

[dreamsville 0]

Yes. One should avoid letting up on the toggles once he/she has begun to flare. On higher performance canopies with tighter toggle range you can end up on your face with that move. Ride out the surf and resist the urge to stab the toggles when there's still a bunch of horizontal speed (not directed at anyone who has more experience than me).
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

Dixieskydiver, I think that your tip certainly helped new jumpers. I currently have much less jumps than all the others that posted here, so your post helped to reinforce what I had been taught.
I am trying to improve my landings, so I love hearing different people's hints, especially BillVon's wonderful, knowledgeable tips. Everyone please keep posting tips for all levels. I love to read it all.

Furthermore, I think that flying different rental canopies in the beginning has been difficult for me, but it has also been helpful in understanding the differences in flying and landing them. It has made me better able to land a sabre after experiencing a spectre, sabre2. silhouette, and student canopies.

[DaGimp 0]

i was told a great rule of thumb when i started downsizing....if your commin in fast flare fast, if your commin in slow flare slow. Ive always remembered that too.

"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas