What's the largest .........

[pd190 0]

.....flag that you have witnessed being displayed while under canopy?

Personally, I've seen a 33' X 65' "Ole Glory" under canopy. Anyone seen or jumped any bigger, or is this the largest on record????

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I've seen a 2000 and something sq/ft flag flying.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[airtwardo 7]

We have a 39 X 59...
which is 2300 sqft.
The dimentions you quote are not in correct proportion for what can actually be considered a US flag.
In 'proper' terminalogy that would be a "banner"
There is a guy with a 5000 sqft U.S. Flag...
I think it weighs about 150 lbs.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 3,088]

I jumped a 20' by 50' flag a few years back for an airshow. It weighed about 50lbs and was deployed from a tandem rig.

[airtwardo 7]

Bill,

It was probably a 20 X 40...800 sqft.
That is pretty much the industry standard, there are a ton of them around.

Our 39X59 comes in at around 85 lbs. and it too is jumped using a tandem 'like' system.
Special design from Strong...similar hardware and drouge system. No cert. for passengers.

Here is a pic of our 2300 sqft. that gives a better idea of scale.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skydivejersey 0]

thats one mamma of a flag!

[airtwardo 7]

...Couple more shots of "Mega Glory"
It's being flown under a Set 425

The Pow-Mia flag is a 15X25

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 4]

Jim,
5000 sq. ft. would be an ass kicker.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 7]

Hi Michael!
How the heck are ya?!
...Yeah I've seen pictures of it, it's a monster!
He jumps with it in a duffle bag kind of set up.
Just 'rolls' out of the airplane with it.

I guess he has problems deploying it straight...it seems to knot itself up coming out of the bag sometimes.

I actually haven't heard much feedback on him / it
this year...I understand he was having problems of a non-jumping nature with the law.

I'll be up in Sacramento in a couple weeks
for a show...looking forward to seeing some California air!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 3,088]

>It was probably a 20 X 40...800 sqft.
>That is pretty much the industry standard, there are a ton of them
>around.

Hmm, the receipt did say 1000 sq ft - maybe they pulled a fast one on us. We never measured it ourselves.

I watched Jim Wallace struggle with an 800 sq ft flag last weekend. Two flag malfunctions. I thought his setup was a little complicated, with a lot of "first you drop this then you pull all this stuff out then you pull this handle." Our system was one handle to deploy, one to cut away the flag.

[airtwardo 7]

Are you sure it was a 20X40 Wallace was jumping?

I spoke with him a couple of months ago...he was working on one something like 2500 Sqft. and was have all kinds of problems getting it to deploy straight. Sounds like it 'still ain't rite' if it was the same one.

I know he does also have a number of 20X40 flags as well, but like you said those are usually a lot easier to deploy....

Our big one has the "pull this...push that" system as well...on big - heavy ones, belive me; there's a reason.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 3,088]

>Our big one has the "pull this...push that" system as well...on big -
>heavy ones, belive me; there's a reason.

Hmm. We had a system where there was a flag deployment bag that had about 40 pounds of shot sewn into the bottom. The bag attached to the tandem harness in 4 places with 3-ring releases and 1 release handle (4 cutaway cables.) The flag was attached to the tandem harness at the top of the flag with a load limiter and to the deployment bag weight at the bottom. It was packed with sort of an S-fold.

After deployment you'd pull the first handle. The bag would fall away and the flag would pay out. It would hit the bottom (the load limiter would pop stitches usually.) Then before landing you'd disconnect the flag with a second 3-ring release.

The one problem we had was that sometimes the flag would try to deploy half on one side of the line, half on the other. Edge came up with some packing tricks that seemed to prevent this. I think the root cause was the bag spinning as it dropped away - it had a long way to drop.

[quade 4]

Jim Wallace has and flys a 1000^2 ft and a 2000+^2 ft (not at the same time -- obviously).

He just flew the 1000^2 ft flag at a Memorial Day event and it went just fine. No real issues with the flag that I could see.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

Yeah...it's pretty much a packing problem that causes that.

And your right, there is a method of packing that all but eliminates it.

If memory serves me, Wally was having problems with the bottom edge knotting over the top...and not having enough canopy speed to " blow " it out. Also a packing / deployment situation.

I've seen the system you describe in use a few times and it's clean, safe, and makes sense...and is a lot easier to repack than most.

We don't weigh flags in that manner as the shot at the bottom presents a bit more hazard to ground personnel than the method we use.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 7]

Paul-
Is he jumping that on a standard sport harness?
From the picture it looks like it's tied into the chest strap??

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 3,088]

Yep, that was the one I saw. Perhaps there's a conspiracy of disreputable flag retailers selling 800 sq ft flags as 1000 sq ft flags.

[quade 4]

Yep, it's a standard sport harness.

Clips into the hip rings and gets threaded through the chest strap. There's a cutaway for flag, but I don't think there is one for the bag. You'll notice a big hook knife on the front of the bag as well. He's been jumping it this way for awhile.

Ya might want to contact him directly for more precise details.

I'm a total newbie to all of this demo stuff -- my Pro card is on file with the USPA, but I haven't received it in the mail yet.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

20x40 = 800 1:2 ratio closer to "official" Title 4 spec of 1:1.9
25x40 = 1000 1:1.6 ratio closer to golden ratio aesthetic

In either case, I don't think anyone would notice unless they measured it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Jim Wallace has and flys a 1000^2 ft and a 2000+^2 ft (not at the same time -- obviously).

Here's a poor quality shot...but it's of a 800 sqft,
a 600 sqft. and a 400 sqft. being flown at the same time...

second pic is from last years EAA calender...
That's a 20X40...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

Wow, that tripple is awesome. I didn't know anybody did that!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

Far be it for me to be critical of Wally!

But....I need to say this;

Prior to hanging significant weight from a sport parachute harness, serious thought should be given to the manufactures design parameters in regard to the placement and the amount.
Ask yourself if the manufacturer knew you would be hanging something there...
I've seen instances where removable D rings split stitching on the main lift web caused by the shock / force of a terminal opening.

I seriously doubt that you will actually find yourself 'back' in freefall...sans your now open rig. But you are putting loads in places they most likely weren't meant to be put.

Why take a chance...it's not worth it.

If you are of the opinion that it's not hurting your harness...
Would you knowingly buy a used rig that has been stressed / utilized in a manner beyond it what it was intended for?

How about throwing on a 'climbing harness' under your rig...attachment points that work for your application are easily added.
There are other methods...I just want to raise the question so that if you choose to take that chance...you're aware.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

All good things to consider and I'll definately keep it in mind.

Just curious -- how do you feel about hybrid dives where people hang from chest straps? Do you see/imagine any long term effects from people doing that sort of thing?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

Not unless they're still hanging there after a terminal opening...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 7]

Listen...I'm not saying it's inherently dangerous and absolutely shouldn't be done...

I just want those that may be trying a flag demo for the first time to give some thought to it.

I've been doing demos for going on 25 years now and have seen some really scary stuff....harness damage, flag containers ripped open on parachute opening, people beaned in the head with a suspended flag weight, main canopies blown up...
( really puckers you up when you then go for a reserve )

Ted Strong brought it to my attention when he balked on jumping a flag using sport rigs at Oshkosh many years back.
He since has become somewhat of a sponsor for our team, working with us on designing systems that are more compatible with what we put them through.

I'm being a hypocritical in that I do jump night pyro on a 'standard' sport rig.
( slighty modified, but not specifically designed for that application )
The 65 pound system is positioned low on the harness and is attached securely in four places...and isn't ever taken to terminal. ( YET! knock on wood )
But I do check the entire system prior to and after each jump to monitor wear and possible damage.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it was good or bad either way. I just hadn't considered that before and in thinking about it, it made me think of some other similar things.

Now, thinking about it, it sure would suck if a hybrid dive somehow opened up a person's chest strap in freefall! That's all I was thinking.

I know I have a ton of stuff to learn about rigging for demos. I'm just trying to soak it all in.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver