jumpinjackflash 0 #1 September 19, 2003 Ok, so, I have to say, I enjoyed the shit out of the Malfunction posts (not literally, figuratively, ok?).... So, as a newbie just getting rolling, I'm curious, from all of you, what canopy/container combinations have you seen that are the most prone to crappy openings, resulting in malfunctions? Are they ellipticals? Zero Por's? Are is it more than that, is it many different things that cause them to be more prone to opening into balls of snot as opposed to the pretty, tame, Manta's that greenhorns like I are jumping.... ? Anyone ? What chute have you hated the most, better yet, you may have bought one, jumped it for a couple months, and said "THis has got to go" because it's such a piece of crap.... lol jjf IT OPENED!!!!! 11 jumps, no mals yet, oooh kinda creepy, makes me a little nervous :-)It's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #2 September 19, 2003 WELL, THAT QUESTION MUST"VE SUCKED! It's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 September 19, 2003 Any canopy can Mal. Some are more prone to different factors lik ebody positino on opening and other things. I've seen Manta's, Tandems, Spectres, Raven's, Classics, Mal and they areall condsidered docile. Then on the other end I've seen FX's, Stilettos, Crossifers, Cobalts, Samurais, an Heatwaves need chopped since they were out of control. Ellipticals tend to be more sensitive to body position on opening.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #4 September 19, 2003 Quotewhat canopy/container combinations have you seen that are the most prone to crappy openings, resulting in malfunctions? Huge containers with small canopies. QuoteAre they ellipticals? Zero Por's? Are is it more than that, is it many different things that cause them to be more prone to opening into balls of snot as opposed to the pretty, tame, Manta's that greenhorns like I are jumping.... Body position is a huge factor on openings specially on ellipticals and the rest is what you like of a canopy, I use one that opens with a lot of snivels and I know of others that open very fast, and I have heard that there are other canopies that are really freaky when they open (ie. velocity) and of course you have the CReW canopies which open very very hard if you pull at terminal (thats what i've been told). QuoteWhat chute have you hated the most Wont say the name but it was a 9 cell F111, student rig, only thing that I liked was the packing. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #5 September 19, 2003 Generaly speaking, equiptment today is very reliable. When I jumped in the late 60's & 70's (T-10& TU's PC's)I expected a mal at least every 25 jumps. Be thankful the industry has advanced so far! Bad equiptment is quickly eliminated from the market today. There is little difference from one mfg. to the next as far as safety records."Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #6 September 19, 2003 Man, 40 minutes!... Have a break..The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #7 September 19, 2003 Flash... go talk to the Cowan brothers about this stuff...they will be able to tell you the same things we will tell you. ANY combination of container/canopy/skydiver can result in a malfunction. even a perfectly packed canopy will sometimes just not open correctly. it happens. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #8 September 19, 2003 YEAH!!!.. this is the best question I've read in a long time Take a Nimbus with 1100 jumps on the original lines. Roll the heck out of nose like it's a new Falcon (original Falcon...even better). THAT... would tend to open into a ball of shit. Pull high, really high...eventually it will fly. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #9 September 19, 2003 Take the other approach: which rig is safe? Any on the ground :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #10 September 19, 2003 QuoteTake the other approach: which rig is safe? Any on the ground :) Good one, yeah, I agree, only problem there is "on the ground" sucks! lol Gotta be in the air, if you wanna dance. jjf no malfunction for me today, thank you though, pass me some more of those taters!It's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #11 September 19, 2003 QuoteMan, 40 minutes!... Have a break.. Ok, good point, it's obvious huh, I have no life! (when I'm not in the air) jjfIt's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #12 September 19, 2003 QuoteFlash... go talk to the Cowan brothers about this stuff...they will be able to tell you the same things we will tell you. ANY combination of container/canopy/skydiver can result in a malfunction. even a perfectly packed canopy will sometimes just not open correctly. it happens. Cool, will do. But I get it, I know that anything malfunctions. I just wanted to know if there were certain combinations, or types of canopies that seemed more "Prone" to malfunctions... just tossin it out there to see what comes back... I would think that chutes like manta's tend to less, considering the amount of reserve rides students tend to take (very very low at our dz). also considering students should tend to have probably worse body positions then accomplished divers (overall I would think) considering they are still learning... anyhow, just tossing it out there to hear the opinions jjfIt's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 September 19, 2003 not sure if most dz's would be able to claim the same about their reserve ride record. the reserves in student rigs are probably the most jumped reserves in existance. students will often cut away from easily fixable problems, sometimes when there isnt even anything odd going on. Ive seen it myself several times and im not even a JM. Just check out the "stupid student" thread for examples. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #14 September 19, 2003 Some canopies (like Spectres) snivel an incredibly long time; this is clearly a problem at 2000 feet. Small ellipticals have an additional malfunction mode (line twist.) You can kick out of line twist on larger canopies; on small ellipticals it can be a malfunction. Older rigs with ROL deployment systems present a risk for out of sequence deployments. BOC and pullout - one isn't more likely or less likely to malfunction than the other, but they have different mal modes. Pullout can help prevent pilot chute in tow mals at the expense of some lost-pud or hard pull mals. Once you go beyond one size larger or smaller than the container is designed to hold, you are at risk for additional problem. A very large main in a small container will likely have problems with riser covers and pin covers staying closed; this can lead to premature or out-of-sequence openings. A small main in a large container can lead to line twist and out of sequence mals unless you resort to tricks (like padding the container.) >What chute have you hated the most, better yet, you may have > bought one, jumped it for a couple months, and said "THis has got > to go" because it's such a piece of crap.... lol Had a PD170 that I thought that about; it was too old to load at what I was loading it at (1.5.) Also had a Nova, but oddly never had any problems with it. I had a Tri-135 that I liked until I tried a Spectre; then the Tri seemed like a poor cousin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #15 September 20, 2003 Quote A large main in a small container can lead to line twist and out of sequence mals unless you resort to tricks (like padding the container.) huh? I think my english is getting a bit flunky but don't you mean a small main in a large container? HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #16 September 20, 2003 Bill, thanks so much man for your comments, this is exactly the kind of thing that I was looking for. I've heard the comment before regarding the chute fitting the container properly as well as hearing many say that padding the container is not a good thing. Of course, at this phase of my Skydiving career, I have no idea, however, it is very interesting to learn the dynamics of what is happening... I aim to learn everything I can about malfunctions. It's important to me to be able to handle them properly, as well as do everything I can (both in packing and deployment) to avoid them. I find it interesting that out of all the replys here, yours was the most extensive (which means there is obviously more to say about the subject) and, I noticed from your profile, that you are into BASE. It would seem to me, that BASE jumpers pay specific attention to mals and how to avoid them, considering there is such a short time to respond. I would think you would do everything you could to avoid a mal at such a low low low altitude... Peace out, thanks for all your help, jjf it's a gas, gas, gasIt's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #17 September 20, 2003 >>which rig is safe? Any on the ground << Not if you're in the air. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #18 September 21, 2003 >huh? I think my english is getting a bit flunky but don't you mean a small main in a large container? Oops, yeah, small main in large container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #19 September 21, 2003 QuoteI've heard the comment before regarding the chute fitting the container properly as well as hearing many say that padding the container is not a good thing You sure about that? I have heard that Rigging Innovations puts padding on the Voodoo when you install a smaller main than the one the container is made for. Heard that from a rigger who took his course there. I think if you ask the manufacturer to install the padding there would not be no problem with it. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #20 September 22, 2003 QuoteQuoteI've heard the comment before regarding the chute fitting the container properly as well as hearing many say that padding the container is not a good thing You sure about that? I have heard that Rigging Innovations puts padding on the Voodoo when you install a smaller main than the one the container is made for. Heard that from a rigger who took his course there. I think if you ask the manufacturer to install the padding there would not be no problem with it. I believe that is exactly right, but wouldn't the manufacturer installing the padding be close to, well, manufactured specs???? lol I meant in the form of trying to juryrig padding to go out the door, not necessarily rigger type modifications. My assumptions would be any senior/master rigger qualified to work on containers would be able to straighten this out.... then again, and I'm proabably going to say this for at least another ten years, I don't know shit. thats what I'm here for to hear from those that do peace jjfIt's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
