rendezvous 0 #1 February 26, 2002 In a flat track how much forward speed is normally attainable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #2 February 26, 2002 It depends on how good you are.. I've seen Hooksnswoop WITHOUT BOOTIES get almost 1:1 in a track. I'm almost positive that is what it was. If you equate 120mph fall rate that means 60 forward 60 down.Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!! http://www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 February 26, 2002 QuoteIf you equate 120mph fall rate that means 60 forward 60 down.Actually it would be quite a different number.If you had a Pro-track on and it said you had a fall rate of 100 and you actually had a 1:1 track (which isn't -quite- obtainable without a wing suit) then while your horizontal movement would be 100 as well, your true airspeed would be 141ish.It's all that stuff the Strawman said at the end of the Wizard of Oz. Ya know, about the square of the hypotentuse? Hmmm, methinks there was somebody before him that said it as well, Pythagoras if'n I recall.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 February 26, 2002 Bird men regular do 80 plus forward while at about 65 down. I'm willing to bet that most people get 35-45 mph in a flat track, to get much over that and you are increasing your angle of attack too much to keep the lift needed to stay in that body position.Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TEB6363 0 #5 February 26, 2002 General numbers:Great Trace = 40-55mphSport jumper = 30-40mphDelta body position (student) = 10-20mphDon't forget to check those "other" force vectors. Look, wave, and pull.:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #6 February 26, 2002 I got out at 13,500, pulled at 2,500 for 11,000 ft of free-fall. Tracked for 2 1/2 miles (13,200 ft) in a RW bootie suit. Better than a 1:1 glide ratio. Pro-track said 75-80 mph fall-rate. This was a tracking competion, so the #'s are real.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 February 26, 2002 Quote. . . Tracked for 2 1/2 miles (13,200 ft) . . .Any idea what the uppers and what your headwind and crosswind components were?I'm not doubting your numbers, but there -may- be a little more to it that just simple distance.By the way, how did you determine the exact distance? GPS?quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #8 February 27, 2002 I was on that dive.. Derek was a MILE ahead of the rest of us.. He landed on the OTHER side of the highway.. Winds were in the direction of jump run..HE IS NOT LYING. I saw it.. He was a spec. Most of us were under canopy while he was still tracking above us and away.Soon after that EMAZING demonstration I asked Derek how he did it. Practicing his technique I have yet to be beaten in a tracking competition by anyone. I'll back him on this one.. Then he took the prize money.. ALL OF IT. And purchased expensive beer for the entire DZ.. First class thing to do..RhinoBlue Skies and Smooth Rides!! http://www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #9 February 27, 2002 Well give it up!! What is the secretGod bless us and God Bless AmericaAlbatross Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #10 February 27, 2002 It can't be told.. You have to feel it.. He put me in a position that felt weird.. It took me 5 or so jumps to get that position down but once I did It felt like I was sitting on an EXTRA column of air. Forward speed is awesome!! Feels like you are tracking on a tight rope and your balance has to be precise to nail it.. But once you do DAMN!! Probably have to ask Derek about that one.. I asked him how he did it and he pointed to the leading edge of the Otter wing and said see that? Make yourself into that shape..RhinoBlue Skies and Smooth Rides!! http://www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #11 February 27, 2002 QuoteHE IS NOT LYING.I didn't say he was.I just think there may be a bit more involved here.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 February 27, 2002 I understand.. None of us could believe it.. It was something you had to see to believe.. He didn't just win the competition he KILLED everyone.. Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!! http://www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 February 27, 2002 Jump run was 1/2 mile west of the DZ and into the wind (South), I opened 2 miles to the East of the DZ. I drove the road from where I opened to the edge of the DZ and added 1/2 mile. The pilot used GPS to fly jumprun 1/2 mile to the West and maintain a straight jumprun to keep the competion fair (it was a whole otter load). Pro-Track for exit, opening altitudes and free-fall speeds.I looked it up on Jump-TrackExit:13,500Deploy:2,100Free-fall time: 102 secBy my math that equals 76 mph avg speed and a 1.158:1 Glide ratio.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #14 February 27, 2002 Got Pictures of that magical positionGod bless us and God Bless AmericaAlbatross Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #15 February 27, 2002 Like Rhino said- make like an Otter wing. Suck up the abs, stay tight, point the toes, lossen your legstraps enough that you can shrug your shoulders as far up and foward as they will go, wear a factory diver and the smallest rig you can. Side view looks like an otter wing. I opened sweating, w/ sore calves, and out of breath.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #16 February 27, 2002 QuoteExit:13,500Deploy:2,100Free-fall time: 102 secMan oh man oh man!That's gotta be some sort of record.I wish the data was a little more firm on the horizontal side of things -- like recorded with a GPS, but if it's anywhere near what you're claiming then holy crap I would have never thought that was possible without a wingsuit.What kind of jumpsuit were you wearing? Slick RW w/ booties? Camera suit w/ booties?Is there anyway we could talk you into finding somebody with a recording GPS -- like an eTrex or something and recording one?I love to see a print out of that.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #17 February 27, 2002 Actually what would be cool is if he can do that with just an RW suit, put him in a wing suit and see what he can do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #18 February 27, 2002 Competion Bev Suit w/ booties, nylon front, cordura booties, inseam grippers, fat double arm and leg grippers. I would love to take a GPS out w/ me on a tracking dive. Send me a GPS, I'll jump it and send it back.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #19 February 27, 2002 Dug up the other one :Same suitExit: 13,0001st 1/2: 852nd 1/2: 75Max: 99Deploy:1500I didn't go as far on that one though.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 February 27, 2002 My last tracking dive was fun as hell.. I was tracking with 2 other jumpers. Only they were falling a good 30+ degrees as I was pulling away from them. Derek is right I was exhausted when I was done. It almost looked like they were in freefall and I was almost still. They were falling away that fast. I flew a circle around them before deploying 2000 feet above them. I have 5 jumps on a wing suit also. That was fun.. Slowest fall rate on the wing suit was 59, not good I know.. I haven't jumped a protrac without a wingsuit. But It would be interesting to compare.Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!! http://www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #21 February 27, 2002 >Suck up the abs, stay tight, point the toes, lossen your legstraps enough that you can shrug your >shoulders as far up and foward as they will go, wear a factory diver and the smallest rig you can.I would also add - begin to dearch. If you feel like you're beginning to go unstable you're doing it right.One of the best compliments I ever got on tracking was from a whuffo. We were doing some big thing at Perris, and my girlfriend was standing next to a whuffo watching our breakoff. I was in an outer ring and started tracking at 5000 or so. The whuffo noticed me taking off and said to Amy "where's that guy going?"-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #22 February 27, 2002 Right, de-arch, but don't just bend at the waist, bend your spin up, like a pissed off cat, so that you look like you were laying on the top of an otter wing.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #23 February 28, 2002 So, you hunch your shoulders all the way up??And why is tracking like this so exhausting?Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #24 February 28, 2002 Yes.. As far forward and above your ears as you can get them.. Because to nail the optimum position is very unnatural.. It takes TONS of effort to stay in that position..Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!! http://www.aahit.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #25 February 28, 2002 Shoulders all the way up and foward, without being restricted by your rig. Lay on the ground, facing up, hands at your sides, heels 6 inches off the ground, shoulders off the ground, pointed toes, shrug your shoulders all the way up and foward. Now hold this postion for a minute and a half. It is tiring, even in free-fall.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
