quade 4 #1 June 25, 2003 http://ww2.saukvalley.com/news/278027622026297.bsp Hopefully there's more to the story and firing than a simple broken leg while engaged in lawful recreational activities. Quote Officials review officer's dismissal Published: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 SHAW NEWS SERVICE OREGON — The recent dismissal of an Oregon police officer after an off-duty skydiving accident is being reviewed, Oregon city attorney Wendy Howarter confirmed Tuesday. "At this point we don't have any comment until we are able to investigate this further," said Howarter. "We are consulting with an attorney that specializes in labor issues." Andrew Mundt, 29, Oregon, was terminated June 13 as an Oregon police officer. The termination notice came six days after he suffered a broken leg and bruised heart while attempting to land while skydiving at the Whiteside County Airport on June 7. Mundt became a full-time police officer in August 2002 and had worked as a part-time officer for the city prior to that time. He also was slated to be the city's K9 officer once that division is established. Mundt's dismissal prompted Frank Bresemann, Oregon, to question the Oregon City Council on Monday night about the termination and the process used to reach it. Bresemann asked the council whose decision it was to fire Mundt. "On the same day Officer Mundt was released from the hospital Oregon Police Chief Tom Miller dated and signed his termination letter stating that his employment with our fair city was ending due to his inability to do his job since his recent injury," said Bresemann who is also Mundt's uncle. On June 9 Miller told the council that Mundt's injuries were very serious and could affect his ability to return to work as a police officer. Monday night, Bresemann said he was "frustrated" by the city's decision to terminate Mundt so soon after the accident. He also said Mundt's recovery is going well. "I come here as a frustrated citizen who needs clarification and help in relation to a recent event involving our fine Oregon Police Department," said Bresemann. Bresemann said Mundt received his termination letter, delivered by Miller, on June 17 — just a few days after being released from the hospital. "While briefly explaining the city's decision, the chief stated that this decision was made by people higher in the city government than himself," said Bresemann. "That is confusing since Tom Miller signed and delivered the letter himself. This was the first contact from the chief or any other city administrator since the accident." Bresemann said he contacted Oregon Mayor Tom Stone to discuss the termination. "He said that although he was aware of the situation he did not make the firing decision," said Bresemann. "This is where I need help. If this type of decision isn't made by the police chief and it isn't made by the mayor, then who does make these decisions?" Stone said the council was planning on discussing the issue later in the meeting during a closed session. "We are going to discuss it tonight," said Stone. Howarter said matters of personnel are not discussed in sessions open to the public. "Officially, personnel matters are not discussed in open session," Howarter told Bresemann. "We have talked to Andy Mundt, and this is not done by any means. Your concerns will be addressed and then discussed with Mr. Mundt." The council then voted to enter into the closed session to discuss personnel matters and pending litigation. No action was taken after the closed session. On Tuesday Howarter said Mundt's status as a city employee was in "limbo." Howarter said the initial decision to terminate Mundt was a "joint decision." Oregon Police Lt. Darin DeHaan has stated that the K9 program will continue to be developed, regardless of Mundt's status. Copyright 2001-2003 Sauk Valley Newspapers quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taz9420 0 #2 June 25, 2003 The Army has made it clear to me that if I'm hurt skydiving (keeps me from my duties) that this hobby of mine is over as long as I'm on active duty. Sometimes I forget that soldiers are property not people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #3 June 25, 2003 the ARMY?!?! or your local commander? different things..IIRC the local commander has the authority to decide what risks are acceptible for property under his control...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 June 25, 2003 That seems a bit odd all things considered -- Golden Knights and whatnot. How would he feel if you were in a skiing accident?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #5 June 25, 2003 QuoteThat seems a bit odd all things considered -- Golden Knights and whatnot. How would he feel if you were in a skiing accident? But the Golden Knights JOB is skydiving, so the risk is acceptable. The standard soldiers job may be any other risky thing, and so THAT risk is acceptable. But yea, fine line, huh? Beth they were looking for a reason to fire this guy, and the accident just happened to make it easier for them. I hope he wins his job back....skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #6 June 26, 2003 I had a platoon sergeant try that line on a soldier taking the First Jump Course when I was Installation Sport Parachute Safety Officer at Fort Campbell. Tell your commander, 1SG or who is ever feeding you this line of crap that they cannot tell you that you can't skydive any more than they can tell you you can't hunt, can't fish, can't bowl, or can't ride a motor cycle. The Army sponsors sport parachute clubs, and any injuries incurred skydiving recreationally, whether at a civilian or military DZ are considered "in line of duty." You have not violated any Army regs. If they press the issue, go to the IG. CDR LTC Christopher D. Reed BCTP, Fort Leavenworth, KS D-15996 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #7 June 26, 2003 That is absolutely correct. The only time I know that you are not supposed to participate is when you're attending a DA funded school. (Welcome back to the states!) Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #8 June 26, 2003 It still makes my pecker hard when an Officer rallies for the troops. De Oppresso Liber... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taz9420 0 #9 June 26, 2003 My NCOES commandant (BNCOC) was a HALO jumper, so he saw no problem with me jumping off duty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #10 June 26, 2003 Thanks Katie - good to be home - Now I just gotta get my reserve repacked and get back in the air! Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #11 June 26, 2003 Getting sunburned on off time to the point where you can't do your job is also a courtmartial offense. It's like being a professional athlete. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #12 June 26, 2003 QuoteThe Army has made it clear to me that if I'm hurt skydiving (keeps me from my duties) that this hobby of mine is over as long as I'm on active duty. Sometimes I forget that soldiers are property not people. the army has no right to do that. its the idiot in charge who thinks he can pull that shit! a good example was stated above...what if it were skiing, hiking or even softball! would you ge in trouble or not be allowed to particiapeate in those sports then? doubt it!! dont let the rank fool you! a WHUFFO is a WHUFFO!My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #13 June 26, 2003 QuoteThe Army has made it clear to me that if I'm hurt skydiving (keeps me from my duties) that this hobby of mine is over as long as I'm on active duty. I am a former Army Company Commander and I can tell you this is coming from a local commander, not the Army. The Army has some rules on skydiving but they do not dictate that you can't skydive. I'll bet you have a skydiver in your COC somewhere. Figure out who he/she is and get this policy brought to their attention. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gremlin 0 #14 June 26, 2003 Having been injured whilst skydiving and unable to attend a couple of Army exercises as a result my boss was entirely sympathetic as he realised that the advantages of skydiving, the friends, the skills etc outweigh the problems of injuries. Far more people are killed each year golfing but almost all the generals do that. And I ain't going to tell THEM to stop I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #15 June 26, 2003 Just in case there is any confusion, this happened in Oregon, Illinois, a small and very scenic town about 100 miles west of Chicago.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #16 June 26, 2003 Unreal - just another great example of WUFFOism out there. Sometimes it really gets my blood boiling when people just plain don't listen/don't attempt to listen/don't get it/don't attempt to get it. I really hope that Oregon incident is resolved or I'm headin to Oregon with my glock BTW Kallend, growing up in Illinois, there is no such thing as scenic Actually, I do miss the rivers and lakes real bad and that glacial activity that made all those cool rolling hills is pretty darn cool too. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #17 June 26, 2003 QuoteFar more people are killed each year golfing Really? Where do you find that? Surely you're not speaking per capita.A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeaKev 0 #18 June 26, 2003 Life sucks! This guy should have been a little bit smarter (cops!). Most fire and police agencies require a six month to one year probationary period upon hire. During this period of time the employer has incredible latitude as to cause for termination. This guy is not likely able to complete his required field training due to the injury and unfortunately he'll probably lose the job permanently. When I was hired by the FD, I had to give up skiing and motorcycle riding until my probation was over. I feel for the guy, but he should have been a bit more thoughtful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudOnMyTongue 0 #19 June 26, 2003 Quote Far more people are killed each year golfing but almost all the generals do that. And I ain't going to tell THEM to stop That is because only fat old people golf, they all probably died of heart attacks and just HAPPENED to be on the golf course at that time. (probably something to do with the length of golf games. One can use statistics to prove almost ANYTHING. No offence intended to those who are not fat and/or old and golf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mwabd1 0 #20 June 26, 2003 Would they have fired him if he had been in a car wreak? That is illegal and he can bring labor charges against them........I hereby reject your reality and instead choose to insert my own! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 June 26, 2003 QuoteThat is absolutely correct. The only time I know that you are not supposed to participate is when you're attending a DA funded school. Katie hit the nail on the head. The best example of this restriction I can think of is the one that has long been in place for USAJFKSWC students. They are absolutely prohibited to skydive or scuba dive while assigned as students anywhere in the schoohouse. Does is still happen on a regular basis? You bet it does, but the second you get injured to the point that you miss class or can't meet any physical requirements, you are done. The system has been in place on Fort Bragg since at least back when I went to the Q-course in 1984, but as a rated instructor, the only member of my cadre who ever ran into me on the dropzone never ratted me out. In the end, big boy rules apply. If this police officer was in fact under such constraints as written in his contract with the city, then I guess he is paying the price. Without knowing that for sure, we can complain about it all we like, but if he was in fact restricted by such a contract he ought not bitch. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #22 June 26, 2003 QuoteWould they have fired him if he had been in a car wreak? In many cases, yes. Sucks but it is actually legal - unless they violate ADA. If you can't do your job, your employer is not under any obligation to continue to pay you. There is the "reasonable accomidation" provision for disabled persons under the ADA but police and fire depts are largely exempt from this act.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #23 June 27, 2003 If the guy was on probation (i.e first year on job) and his heart injury might prevent him from running after criminals, then he should be terminated. However, a more diplomatic policy would involve the city allowing him to heal for 6 months, then insisting on a PT test, doctor's report, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #24 June 27, 2003 If this is a small town I'm assuming he has no FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) representation. Small town cops are unfortunately at the whim of the small town government. They normally have no collective bargaining agent or union (for lack of a better word) representation. If he was on probation, sounds like he's outta luck. My employer has always been cool with me jumping. They even put me on light duty while I was recovering from a minor jump related injury. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropoutdave 0 #25 June 27, 2003 "his employment with our fair city was ending due to his inability to do his job since his recent injury," hmm fair huh? ------------------------------------------------------ May Contain Nut traces...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
