Suggestion for HopnPop please

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes, the opening will be slower, but you're also going slower. It should take about the same distance to open at sub-term as it does at terminal.

I was terrified of doing my low solo. When I finally did it, I thought, what's the big deal? I was actually open a little higher than usual. Just treat it as any other jump, you're just skipping the freefall.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Okay, revising my idea after reading below. Figure if jump at 3.5k count 5 and pull for slow openning, should be all okay under canopy by 2.5k rather than 1.5k. I was counting fall rate at terminal velosity speed by mistake. Naturally its a slower fall. My idea of adding 2 secs to the after pull count sounds right (1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 look left, 5,000 look right - allow another 2 seconds) - then think emergency if not out and flying.

Yes ofcourse I will check with my JM. He said he'll tell all on the day. But I like to do my background thinking and plan ready...then I can handle a different instruction on a particular point on the day.

Yep! Go with what your local DZO / Jumpmasters teach!

As a comparison though... The way we used to teach it way way back when I was current as a Static Line Jumpmaster... was :

- Poised Exit Position...
- Up, Down... ARCH Thousand!
- Two Thousand
- Look Thousand... Ripcord on right hip in those days, remember... and look means look with just a small head/eye movement, not breaking your arch
- Reach Thousand... Right hand/arm moves down to grasp ripcord, left hand/arm extends out in front for balance
- PULL
- Arch... 1... 2... 3...4... Check... Check...
- If you're still in freefall, perform your emergency procedures... if you've got a main over your head, perform your Shape, Spin, Speed checks... if you have a main with something that can be fixed (i.e. line twists, collapsed end cells, slider halfway down) deal with it as you've been taught up until now... Perform your canopy control checks... if you get to your decision altitude without a good main, perform your emergency procedures.





Yes, the canopy opening will be a bit slower since you're sub-terminal, but don't dwel on that, it wants to open!

Have fun!

Aside... We've done this thing at my local DZ from time to time we call "Night Iron Man"... starting at 1 hr past sunset, we start doing Night Clear-n-Pulls... you're allowed 1 rig, you have to pack for yourself... we use the Cessna... groups of 3 or 4 experienced jumpers per load... without rushing too fast that it would compromise safety and everyone gets a gear check before getting on the airplane, but we keep the pace moving at a good clip... you do 10 Clear-n-Pulls, usually from 3K... we've talked about going all night, but folks usually hit the wall around 1a.m. so we usually cut it off at 10 jumps in a row... yeah, yeah, I know, silly bored skydiver stuff, but its fun!

[JustRelax 0]

Our DZ has an emergency rule that if we are ordered out of the plane below 2,000 that we pull the reserve. Maybe I get more choice after I get my A license, but that's there rule we're given.

2,500 is the legal hard deck in New Zealand (think that's right). I beleive this means I have to feel I can land my main by that hieight, or I have to make a decision to go for the reserve.

This also makes sense that if I jump at 3500 get stable and pull that I should be under canopy by 2500.

Making sense of the suggestions.

Thanks

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

[riddler 0]

From 3500 feet, you have more than 20 seconds before hitting the ground, more than 15 seconds before your Cypres fires. Plenty of time to not only pull but work with a malfunction if one comes up.

I suggest to my students to do a poised exit and count to five before pulling. In the first five seconds, you only fall about 400 feet. In seven seconds, 800 feet. Eight-Nine seconds for 1,000 feet. There is plenty of time.

[rendezvous 0]

Just relax. Don't be in a hurry. You'll have plenty of time. After all you are starting out at 3.5K and not passing through it at terminal. The first 1000 ft of a skydive take about 10 sec. Don't get intimidated by the how low it is. You'll see you have adequate time up your sleeves.

[JustRelax 0]

Thanks for the tips. Yesterday I did my HopNPop and it went well - which by the way means i'm through my AFF training (beers for the DZ!)

Before the NopNPop I did a solo and then went up in the next load for the HopNPop. I think that was a good way because I was able to have the drop of the cesna fresh in my mind.

They told me to look at the JM who had his head out the door, as I exited, so as to increase the chnace for a good exit arch position.

It was good to be expecting a slow openning and to know that I wasn't going to be at terminal velosity so I did have plenty of time.

Thanks again.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

[mjosparky 4]

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umm, just relax. make a 'poised exit' to ease your trip off the hill, should be 4 or 5 seconds, and pull. i repeat, if you are concerned with the low alti, a smooth exit is the answer.

Doesn't that make it a 4 or 5 sec. delay instead of a clear and pull?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[masher 1]

Thats what I'd call it.

I love H'nP's. I was brought up on static line, so that probably has something to do with it. My idea of a H'nP is a poised exit, arch, dump. A five second delay is exactly that, a 5 sec delay.

I've heard stories about AFF students (off student status) being afraid to get out of the acft below their opening altitude (ie ~3k)

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[pds 0]

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umm, just relax. make a 'poised exit' to ease your trip off the hill, should be 4 or 5 seconds, and pull. i repeat, if you are concerned with the low alti, a smooth exit is the answer.

Doesn't that make it a 4 or 5 sec. delay instead of a clear and pull?

well now, i would say that a C&P and a H&P arent necessarily, or even technically describing, the same thing. we aint base jumping here, sparky

i would not advise a student jumper on first H&P to throw straight out the door. a first time H&P, at supersub terminal in an unstable body position? i could be wrong, and the time for this jumper has obviously come and gone uneventfully, but i would be willing to hear others opinion on this subject.

namaste, motherfucker.

[mjosparky 4]

Hop & Pop is slang for Clear & pull, like saying dope rope for static line. Static line students on their first jump off static line do a clear & pull. An AFF student coming off student status should be able to exit with control and pull right out of the door. Do we have some instructors who could clear this up for us.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pds 0]

again, i think you are oversimplifying.

namaste, motherfucker.

[PhreeZone 20]

If I remember right students on the low jump for AFF have 5 seconds to regain stability and pull while stable. They can take the full 5 seconds (and I've seen more then one need 5 seconds) or if they are stable as soon as they clear the tail they can throw.

Hop an pop can mean anything from an IAD deployment to a few second delay. You can even do stupid things (not that I'd ever do that...) and do stuff like high speed hop an pops out of Casa's and then your subterminal Cessna exits.

Static line students on their first release do a 5 second delay.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 3,111]

>well now, i would say that a C&P and a H&P arent necessarily, or
>even technically describing, the same thing.

Hmm. I've never heard them used as anything but synonyms, other than the "official" term is clear and pull and the unofficial term is hop and pop. Both mean the same thing - you get clear of the aircraft (including its tail) and open immediately afterwards.

>i would not advise a student jumper on first H&P to throw straight out
> the door. a first time H&P, at supersub terminal in an unstable body
> position?

Jumpers in the static line program do exactly that for their first freefall.

[mjosparky 4]

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Static line students on their first release do a 5 second delay

***Wrong, their first jump off of static line is a clear and pull, arch, look, pull, arch. After 3 good clear and pulls they move to 5 sec.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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[kallend 2,146]

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I'd hate to be behind someone who freezes in the door.

I doubt you'd be behind them for long

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TaeKwonDoDo 0]

I'm fairly new (~35 jumps) and took a canopy control course this weekend - 4 hop-n-pops.

Loved-em. Get a few seconds of free-fall then pull - softer opening but not much different jump than falling from 13K.

What I liked best? I got the sky all to myself. Awesome.

You'll do fine.

- Jeff

"That's not flying, it's falling with style."

[livendive 8]

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Static line students on their first release do a 5 second delay

***Wrong, their first jump off of static line is a clear and pull, arch, look, pull, arch. After 3 good clear and pulls they move to 5 sec.

Arch thousand
Look thousand
Reach thousand
Pull thousand

i.e. damn near a 4 second delay. I just add in the extra second for my first freefall students, so it seems like they'll have 5 seconds before PC inflation. In reality, most pull at around 3 seconds after going archthousandtwothousandlookgodhelpmepull

Once they've successfully done 1 good c&p on this count, I move them to a "real" five second delay.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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