LouDiamond 1 #1 June 20, 2003 Here is an opportunity to tell the TSA folks what you think. Their website for tips on how to pack www.tsatraveltips.us and the toll free phone 1-866-289-9673. Email at TellTSA@tsa.dot.gov. have fun and happy hunting"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #2 June 20, 2003 I had fun with the TSA at LAX on Sunday. I got tagged as a person that needed to go through the high security section; shoes off, all metal off, bags searched, body wanded down etc... They had about 50-60 people lined up to go through only one x-ray station. It took us three hours and two missed planes to get through security. And I was only transferring to a domestic flight (taking off from the internation terminal though...)-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #3 June 20, 2003 Quote Email at TellTSA@tsa.dot.gov. have fun and happy hunting I just did...hehe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #4 June 20, 2003 Thanks Lou, It always feels good to voice your complaints to someone even if it will not be heard. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #5 June 20, 2003 Here's what they'll probably have to say about it: TSA Tips to Help with Summer Travel New tips from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) will help get travelers on their way this Memorial Day weekend and throughout the summer. The new travel tips for summer vacationers will help speed travelers and their gear through airport security procedures. Here are a few new tips to help summer travelers: ... ... Sporting Goods - Summer is also a great time to go scuba diving, catch some fish or go camping. Scuba tanks are not allowed on commercial airlines for safety reasons. Ship scuba tanks or consider renting a tank at your destination. Fishing tackle and sports gear - such as bats and lacrosse sticks - must be checked. Campers traveling with gas containers for grills or stoves must find another way to ship the containers separately, because they cannot be checked or carried onto a plane for safety reasons. Believe it or not, parachutes are another item that can be damaged as part of the security screening process. Consider other means of shipping or at the very least, please check parachutes closely before using. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #6 June 20, 2003 QuoteBelieve it or not, parachutes are another item that can be damaged as part of the security screening process. Consider other means of shipping or at the very least, please check parachutes closely before using. heh heh...yeah, they can be damaged! By the idiot TSA agent who doesn't know what a parachute is pulling on things he shouldn't be pulling on!!! "please check parachutes closely before using..." because Agent Dumbass pulled the square metal handle and now there's pastel-colored parachute material everywhere. Oh, that's your reserve chute? How do I put it back together?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #7 June 20, 2003 That's not a joke. That is the actual verbage used in the TSA document on their site."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #8 June 20, 2003 QuoteHere's what they'll probably have to say about it: Believe it or not, parachutes are another item that can be damaged as part of the security screening process. Consider other means of shipping or at the very least, please check parachutes closely before using. people should not touch live saving devices they dont understand..if thay have a question about anyones baggage they should GO GET THE PASSENGER.. frickin idiots.. its not that hard to screen the baggage BEFORE it leaves the check in area...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #9 June 20, 2003 QuoteBelieve it or not, parachutes are another item that can be damaged as part of the security screening process. Consider other means of shipping or at the very least, please check parachutes closely before using. what I find funny is the "believe it or not bit" I mean if TSA is going to go out of it's way to damage the rig then what does it mean by "believe it or not", put in that kind of effort and anything will get damaged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #10 June 20, 2003 I sent them an email re: rigs and Cypresses. The reply: QuoteTSA has received comments and suggestions on this issue from other travelers. TSA has identified this issue and we are working to establish an appropriate policy to address this concern. TSA Contact Center.Quote -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #11 June 20, 2003 By the idiot TSA agent who doesn't know what a parachute is pulling on things he shouldn't be pulling on!!! "please check parachutes closely before using..." because Agent Dumbass pulled the square metal handle and now there's pastel-colored parachute material everywhere. Oh, that's your reserve chute? How do I put it back together? The Fact that a TSA agent doesn't know how a rig is constructed doens'nt make him an idiot ,or a Dumbass for that matter. You should try and be a little more tolerant of people who are just trying to do thier job. Maybe you could take the time to explain things to him/her. Next time you're on a plane and it doesn't explode or it isn't commandeered by a gun toteing yahoo, make sure you run up to the first TSA agent you see upon landing and kick him where it matters. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #12 June 20, 2003 Quote The Fact that a TSA agent doesn't know how a rig is constructed doens'nt make him an idiot ,or a Dumbass for that matter. no it means that his boss is an idiot and a dumbass because he didnt implement basic training procedures and ensure that all his employees know to ask questions and request assistance BEFORE their actions possibly damage someone else’s property, particularly in the cases where said property is a life saving device.. its not as if the USPA & various container manufactures are hiding the info about how things work and how the look under xray..there isnt ANY good reason why they should have to open a container..it can be x-rayed (and compared to standard drawings of AADs) and swabbed for explosives all without ever pulling any handles or cutting anything at all.. what it requires is the TSA supervisors to do their job and ensure that the lower paid goons understand their responsibilities and dont take the "easy" way out...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakyrat 1 #13 June 20, 2003 Just to let you know took my Cypres equipped Mirage through Houston Hobby and Chicago Midway on Southwest last weekend without any problems. I haD a piece of paper from Southwest that reads G/BAG/PAR CATEGORY-BAG SUBJECT-PAR ...PARACHUTE PAGE01 PARACHUTES CONTAINING THE AIRTEC CYPRESS AUTOMATIC ACTIVATION DEVICE /AAD/ HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED AS NON-REGULATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. THEREFORE, CUSTOMERS MAY TRANSPORT THEIR PARACHUTES EQUIPPED WITH AIRTEC CYPRESS AAD'S AS CHECKED OR CARRYON BAGGAGE. I hope this settles things. The screener at Midway said it's a parachute , see you. I said thanks an proceeded to the gate. At midway the machines are up front in the lobby so if the screener want's to check something they can have you open the bag in front of them. When I was in Canada the screener has an extra TV monitor at the end of the x-ray machine and if they question something they will show you what they are questioning and ask about it in a polite way. Therefore no hassles. Chris Chrzan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #14 June 21, 2003 what it requires is the TSA supervisors to do their job and ensure that the lower paid goons understand their responsibilities and dont take the "easy" way out... There you go putting someone down because of thier position. I get so tired of hearing jumpers talk about non jumpers as stupid whuffos and anyone that doesn't know about skydiving or gear is automatically an idiot. I have traveled with my rig many times and have never had a bit of trouble with anyone, I think it is because I am patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents. Spread the love. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #15 June 21, 2003 Here is the email I sent them today: >From your website: "Believe it or not, parachutes are another item that can be damaged as part of the security screening process. Consider other means of shipping or at the very least, please check parachutes closely before using. " Parachutes are live saving devices. They must not be tampered with by people unfamiliar with their operation. TSA agents need to understand that by tampering with a Parachute, they are risking the lives of the people who depend on them. For an agent to attempt to disasemble a parachute would be similar to a agent disasembling a deflibrulator, or a pace-maker. That agents actions could very likely kill someone. Moreover, it is physically dangerous for an individual unfamiliar with the operation of a parachute to attempt to open one. They are spring loaded, and frequently break jaw-bones of curious individuals. Parachutes frequently open with over 75 pounds of force. What will the TSA's reaction be when a skydiver dies because a curious TSA agent tampered with his gear? The TSA must adopt a policy of contacting the owners of gear and requesting assistance when more thorough inspections are required. This goes to the safety of both the TSA agent and the owner of the gear. It is unnaceptable for agents working behind the scenes in seclusion to attempt to open parachutes. Moreover - TSA agents must become familiar with skydiving gear in the first place. Skydivers understand concerns surrounding aircraft safety, we understand tha there are components of skydiving gear that look particularly interesting under X-RAY to an untrained eye. All skydiving gear is similar in construction, and these "interesting" components look exactly the same under x-ray in nearly every parachute system. TSA X-ray technicians need to be able to recognize mundane components for what they are. Andrew Metcalfe Chicago, Illinois.__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunman 0 #16 June 21, 2003 What the TSA website should say: Making travel plans? Well, if you're going to be flying commercially, just make sure to leave those constitutional rights at the door. You see, because you're flying on an airplane, we're going to assume that you're a criminal. Our process is random, so we really have no reason to search you or your belongings, but we'll do it anyway. Those big fancy letters that say "TSA" on our uniforms means that we are more powerful than the constitution itself. Happy traveling, and enjoying our carefully constructed illusion of safety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #17 June 21, 2003 QuoteWhat the TSA website should say: Making travel plans? Well, if you're going to be flying commercially, just make sure to leave those constitutional rights at the door. You see, because you're flying on an airplane, we're going to assume that you're a criminal. Our process is random, so we really have no reason to search you or your belongings, but we'll do it anyway. Those big fancy letters that say "TSA" on our uniforms means that we are more powerful than the constitution itself. Happy traveling, and enjoying our carefully constructed illusion of safety. I sure hope you sent an E-mail to the TSA and not just post here about your complaints. Remember people if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. This is your chance to let them know what needs to change."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #18 June 21, 2003 Quote I have traveled with my rig many times and have never had a bit of trouble with anyone, I think it is because I am patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents. i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? how does being "patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents" help when you never see the people who damaged the equipment you trust your life too?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #19 June 21, 2003 i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? No, I haven't heard reports of peoples rigs being "cut open" but I have been privy to many other urban legends, like the guy that attached rocket engines to his car and flew into a cliff or the burgler that took a pic of himself with the homeowners toothbrush in his butt, but that doesn't make them true. I sense alot of hatred for authority figures in this thread, You guys weren't alter boys by any chance? Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,117 #20 June 21, 2003 Quote i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? No, I haven't heard reports of peoples rigs being "cut open" but I have been privy to many other urban legends, like the guy that attached rocket engines to his car and flew into a cliff or the burgler that took a pic of himself with the homeowners toothbrush in his butt, but that doesn't make them true. I sense alot of hatred for authority figures in this thread, You guys weren't alter boys by any chance? Jump nice John Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen - at LAX on the way to ZHills for the Easter boogie. Why are you so keen to defend government intrusion?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #21 June 22, 2003 Why are you so keen to defend government intrusion? I am a long time Libertarian and I am anti big brother, anti big government, and anti worthless "steal from the rich and give to the poor" social programs. I do feel however that some things are necessary, such as screening people and taking thier bombs away before they get on airplanes. I know that this inconvienances some people and maybe some rigs have been messed with (I won't believe the cut open rig though untill I see some pictures)but this is a relatively new program and there are bound to be problems to work through. The fact that airliners aren't still crashing into buildings says something about the program. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #22 June 22, 2003 QuoteThe fact that airliners aren't still crashing into buildings says something about the program. i think the TSAs efforts have very little to do with the fact that hasnt happened again, nor is anything they are doing really helping to prevent it either..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #23 June 22, 2003 i think the TSAs efforts have very little to do with the fact that hasnt happened again, nor is anything they are doing really helping to prevent it either.. I don't agree with that although there is no real way to know for sure. The only way to find out I guess is to stop screening passengers and luggage and just hope for the best. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #24 June 23, 2003 QuoteThe fact that airliners aren't still crashing into buildings says something about the program. mmm... yes.... that was quite the regular event wasnt it......Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clownburner 0 #25 June 23, 2003 Not meaning to hijack this thread or anything, but it's something I feel strongly about. The TSA's "enhanced" security procedures have cost this country billions in lost productivity, hundreds of millions in new personnel and equipment, and overall done very little to actually improve security on flights. I've carried on knives by accident, not realizing they were in my luggage until I landed and found my pocketknife attached to my keys. Someone intent on hijacking an airplane could easily do so with smuggled weapons, but a well-trained and motivated individual can be easily as dangerous with a ball point pen. Should we confiscate those? What's next, strip searching all passengers? We're not far from that, and I'll wager if we ever end up on 'red' alert status we'll all be naked in the terminal. The only two airline security measures that have made any kind of real difference, based on our experiences with the tragic events of 2001, are: 1) reinforcing and locking cockpit doors, and 2) arming pilots (which hasn't even happened yet). The real issue isn't that you're "accepting" a higher risk in exchange for more freedom - you already _HAVE_ the higher risk, and now we have all the inconvience and intrusion of personal privacy to go with it. The terrorist attacks of 2001 were a tremendous success for the terrorists in that they caused more erosion of personal freedom and consititutional rights then any event in our country's history since the civil war. The government has since used that event as a carte blanche to pass any kind of arbitrary power legislation they feel like, and to grant the president unprecidented and unconsitutional powers, and to imprison US citizens without access to council or due process. I find it hard to believe that any libertarian could tolerate that. Others have said it, and they're right: It's an illusion of security. Some frightening reading: http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/ http://www.geocities.com/totalinformationawareness/ http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20030217.html http://www.privacyactivism.org/Item/48 http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/06/us0612.htm "One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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wrightskyguy 1 #11 June 20, 2003 By the idiot TSA agent who doesn't know what a parachute is pulling on things he shouldn't be pulling on!!! "please check parachutes closely before using..." because Agent Dumbass pulled the square metal handle and now there's pastel-colored parachute material everywhere. Oh, that's your reserve chute? How do I put it back together? The Fact that a TSA agent doesn't know how a rig is constructed doens'nt make him an idiot ,or a Dumbass for that matter. You should try and be a little more tolerant of people who are just trying to do thier job. Maybe you could take the time to explain things to him/her. Next time you're on a plane and it doesn't explode or it isn't commandeered by a gun toteing yahoo, make sure you run up to the first TSA agent you see upon landing and kick him where it matters. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #12 June 20, 2003 Quote The Fact that a TSA agent doesn't know how a rig is constructed doens'nt make him an idiot ,or a Dumbass for that matter. no it means that his boss is an idiot and a dumbass because he didnt implement basic training procedures and ensure that all his employees know to ask questions and request assistance BEFORE their actions possibly damage someone else’s property, particularly in the cases where said property is a life saving device.. its not as if the USPA & various container manufactures are hiding the info about how things work and how the look under xray..there isnt ANY good reason why they should have to open a container..it can be x-rayed (and compared to standard drawings of AADs) and swabbed for explosives all without ever pulling any handles or cutting anything at all.. what it requires is the TSA supervisors to do their job and ensure that the lower paid goons understand their responsibilities and dont take the "easy" way out...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #13 June 20, 2003 Just to let you know took my Cypres equipped Mirage through Houston Hobby and Chicago Midway on Southwest last weekend without any problems. I haD a piece of paper from Southwest that reads G/BAG/PAR CATEGORY-BAG SUBJECT-PAR ...PARACHUTE PAGE01 PARACHUTES CONTAINING THE AIRTEC CYPRESS AUTOMATIC ACTIVATION DEVICE /AAD/ HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED AS NON-REGULATED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. THEREFORE, CUSTOMERS MAY TRANSPORT THEIR PARACHUTES EQUIPPED WITH AIRTEC CYPRESS AAD'S AS CHECKED OR CARRYON BAGGAGE. I hope this settles things. The screener at Midway said it's a parachute , see you. I said thanks an proceeded to the gate. At midway the machines are up front in the lobby so if the screener want's to check something they can have you open the bag in front of them. When I was in Canada the screener has an extra TV monitor at the end of the x-ray machine and if they question something they will show you what they are questioning and ask about it in a polite way. Therefore no hassles. Chris Chrzan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrightskyguy 1 #14 June 21, 2003 what it requires is the TSA supervisors to do their job and ensure that the lower paid goons understand their responsibilities and dont take the "easy" way out... There you go putting someone down because of thier position. I get so tired of hearing jumpers talk about non jumpers as stupid whuffos and anyone that doesn't know about skydiving or gear is automatically an idiot. I have traveled with my rig many times and have never had a bit of trouble with anyone, I think it is because I am patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents. Spread the love. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #15 June 21, 2003 Here is the email I sent them today: >From your website: "Believe it or not, parachutes are another item that can be damaged as part of the security screening process. Consider other means of shipping or at the very least, please check parachutes closely before using. " Parachutes are live saving devices. They must not be tampered with by people unfamiliar with their operation. TSA agents need to understand that by tampering with a Parachute, they are risking the lives of the people who depend on them. For an agent to attempt to disasemble a parachute would be similar to a agent disasembling a deflibrulator, or a pace-maker. That agents actions could very likely kill someone. Moreover, it is physically dangerous for an individual unfamiliar with the operation of a parachute to attempt to open one. They are spring loaded, and frequently break jaw-bones of curious individuals. Parachutes frequently open with over 75 pounds of force. What will the TSA's reaction be when a skydiver dies because a curious TSA agent tampered with his gear? The TSA must adopt a policy of contacting the owners of gear and requesting assistance when more thorough inspections are required. This goes to the safety of both the TSA agent and the owner of the gear. It is unnaceptable for agents working behind the scenes in seclusion to attempt to open parachutes. Moreover - TSA agents must become familiar with skydiving gear in the first place. Skydivers understand concerns surrounding aircraft safety, we understand tha there are components of skydiving gear that look particularly interesting under X-RAY to an untrained eye. All skydiving gear is similar in construction, and these "interesting" components look exactly the same under x-ray in nearly every parachute system. TSA X-ray technicians need to be able to recognize mundane components for what they are. Andrew Metcalfe Chicago, Illinois.__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunman 0 #16 June 21, 2003 What the TSA website should say: Making travel plans? Well, if you're going to be flying commercially, just make sure to leave those constitutional rights at the door. You see, because you're flying on an airplane, we're going to assume that you're a criminal. Our process is random, so we really have no reason to search you or your belongings, but we'll do it anyway. Those big fancy letters that say "TSA" on our uniforms means that we are more powerful than the constitution itself. Happy traveling, and enjoying our carefully constructed illusion of safety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #17 June 21, 2003 QuoteWhat the TSA website should say: Making travel plans? Well, if you're going to be flying commercially, just make sure to leave those constitutional rights at the door. You see, because you're flying on an airplane, we're going to assume that you're a criminal. Our process is random, so we really have no reason to search you or your belongings, but we'll do it anyway. Those big fancy letters that say "TSA" on our uniforms means that we are more powerful than the constitution itself. Happy traveling, and enjoying our carefully constructed illusion of safety. I sure hope you sent an E-mail to the TSA and not just post here about your complaints. Remember people if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. This is your chance to let them know what needs to change."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #18 June 21, 2003 Quote I have traveled with my rig many times and have never had a bit of trouble with anyone, I think it is because I am patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents. i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? how does being "patient, polite, and willing to work with the agents" help when you never see the people who damaged the equipment you trust your life too?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrightskyguy 1 #19 June 21, 2003 i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? No, I haven't heard reports of peoples rigs being "cut open" but I have been privy to many other urban legends, like the guy that attached rocket engines to his car and flew into a cliff or the burgler that took a pic of himself with the homeowners toothbrush in his butt, but that doesn't make them true. I sense alot of hatred for authority figures in this thread, You guys weren't alter boys by any chance? Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #20 June 21, 2003 Quote i guess you havent heard the reports of rigs being CUT OPEN by ignorant TSA personnel when checked as baggage?? No, I haven't heard reports of peoples rigs being "cut open" but I have been privy to many other urban legends, like the guy that attached rocket engines to his car and flew into a cliff or the burgler that took a pic of himself with the homeowners toothbrush in his butt, but that doesn't make them true. I sense alot of hatred for authority figures in this thread, You guys weren't alter boys by any chance? Jump nice John Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen - at LAX on the way to ZHills for the Easter boogie. Why are you so keen to defend government intrusion?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrightskyguy 1 #21 June 22, 2003 Why are you so keen to defend government intrusion? I am a long time Libertarian and I am anti big brother, anti big government, and anti worthless "steal from the rich and give to the poor" social programs. I do feel however that some things are necessary, such as screening people and taking thier bombs away before they get on airplanes. I know that this inconvienances some people and maybe some rigs have been messed with (I won't believe the cut open rig though untill I see some pictures)but this is a relatively new program and there are bound to be problems to work through. The fact that airliners aren't still crashing into buildings says something about the program. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #22 June 22, 2003 QuoteThe fact that airliners aren't still crashing into buildings says something about the program. i think the TSAs efforts have very little to do with the fact that hasnt happened again, nor is anything they are doing really helping to prevent it either..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrightskyguy 1 #23 June 22, 2003 i think the TSAs efforts have very little to do with the fact that hasnt happened again, nor is anything they are doing really helping to prevent it either.. I don't agree with that although there is no real way to know for sure. The only way to find out I guess is to stop screening passengers and luggage and just hope for the best. Jump nice John John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #24 June 23, 2003 QuoteThe fact that airliners aren't still crashing into buildings says something about the program. mmm... yes.... that was quite the regular event wasnt it......Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #25 June 23, 2003 Not meaning to hijack this thread or anything, but it's something I feel strongly about. The TSA's "enhanced" security procedures have cost this country billions in lost productivity, hundreds of millions in new personnel and equipment, and overall done very little to actually improve security on flights. I've carried on knives by accident, not realizing they were in my luggage until I landed and found my pocketknife attached to my keys. Someone intent on hijacking an airplane could easily do so with smuggled weapons, but a well-trained and motivated individual can be easily as dangerous with a ball point pen. Should we confiscate those? What's next, strip searching all passengers? We're not far from that, and I'll wager if we ever end up on 'red' alert status we'll all be naked in the terminal. The only two airline security measures that have made any kind of real difference, based on our experiences with the tragic events of 2001, are: 1) reinforcing and locking cockpit doors, and 2) arming pilots (which hasn't even happened yet). The real issue isn't that you're "accepting" a higher risk in exchange for more freedom - you already _HAVE_ the higher risk, and now we have all the inconvience and intrusion of personal privacy to go with it. The terrorist attacks of 2001 were a tremendous success for the terrorists in that they caused more erosion of personal freedom and consititutional rights then any event in our country's history since the civil war. The government has since used that event as a carte blanche to pass any kind of arbitrary power legislation they feel like, and to grant the president unprecidented and unconsitutional powers, and to imprison US citizens without access to council or due process. I find it hard to believe that any libertarian could tolerate that. Others have said it, and they're right: It's an illusion of security. Some frightening reading: http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/ http://www.geocities.com/totalinformationawareness/ http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20030217.html http://www.privacyactivism.org/Item/48 http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/06/us0612.htm "One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the great struggle for independence." - Charles A. Beard7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
