Lineovers

[Shadowplay 0]

Can I get some more information on lineovers please? I know I should know them down pat since I'm almost done with AFF but all I seem to remember from my ground course is that they are bad and if I get one I'm supposed to chop.

What exactly are they caused from?

What happens to the Canopy during a lineover? Does it spin or get twisted or something like that?

Can lineovers occur after a controllable square canopy come out? In other words do I need to worry about seeing a lineover happen after riding a good canopy for a couple thousand feet?

Can you combat a lineover? Is there anything that can be done?

I know you don't remove your steering toggles if you are in a line twist, is the same thing true for line overs?

Lastly? If you do have a lineover on landing, what kind of impact can you expect? Fatal?

Sorry for the flood of questions.....

[AggieDave 6]

Generally line overs are caused by sloppy packing, letting a line get in front of the nose in the packjob. That's why we're so careful with the lines while packing and we don't just "toss" the packjob to the floor after flaking it out and rolling the tail. When you drop it to the floor you spread the lines out and that *could* lead to a line over.

The canopy?

Well, yes, to answer your question. It might fly sorta straight, it might turn and dive, it might induce linetwists...it all depends on the canopy, what line and where on the canopy it goes over.

Sort of like the Breakaway video...this is what one looks like, but be prepaired to see something totally different in real life.

I guess, if you tried really really really really really really really really really really really really really hard to induce a line over after having a good canopy over your head...you'd fail, can't do it.

You can combat one, but I'm going to leave that up to your instructor to explain, since you're still a student your cutaway procedures should be exactly what you were taught.

As for the toggles...see above.

Line over on landing? Well, that's why you're taught to chop it. To say the least it would probably hurt, in the worst case, where you were spinning, you would most likely die.


Any other questions?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Shadowplay 0]

Yes actually, and thanks for the info. I feel better now..

I saw in another post that you chopped at 2k ft. I'm wondering if you do that and pull the reserve rather quickly what kind of altitude are you looking at when your reserve deploys? 1k? Does it depend a lot on the rig?

[mr2mk1g 10]

if what I hear about the skyhook is right...

if you chop a main at 2000ft and have the skyhook on your rig you will be under your reserve at about 1900ft.

YOU WILL BE A LOT LOWER WITH A NORMALY DEPLOYED RESERVE THOUGH

[Remster 30]

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YOU WILL BE A LOT LOWER WITH A NORMALY DEPLOYED RESERVE THOUGH

What is a lot to you?????

Remster

[Hazarrd 1]

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YOU WILL BE A LOT LOWER WITH A NORMALY DEPLOYED RESERVE THOUGH

What is a lot to you?????

Does anyone else notice that every thread lately has ended up in a discussion on: cypres, skyhooks, or rsls? hah

.-.

[AggieDave 6]

That was a planned cutaway on a cutaway rig equiped with a Skyhook. That's not your normal cutaway. It opened the reserve in roughly 100ft.

Normal deployments (even with a RSL) take longer then that, how long depends on a few factors including what sort of malfunction it is and if you take a delay after cutting away your main.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mr2mk1g 10]

"A LOT" to me is a bit of a disclaimer to make sure some student reading this does not think its safe to cut away at 100 - 200ft, cos as we all know, its NOT.

[AggieDave 6]

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this does not think its safe to cut away at 100 - 200ft

I teach my students in the tandem transistion course that 2500ft is their cutaway hard deck (then again, they're opening much higher). My personal hard deck is 1500ft for cutaways.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,120]

>What exactly are they caused from?

Poor packing 95% of the time. Random chance 5% of the time.

>What happens to the Canopy during a lineover? Does it spin or get
>twisted or something like that?

If the lineover is assymetrical (which is normal) it will spin; severity depends on its size. If the lineover is symmetrical it may not spin but will not be landable. Canopy damage (i.e. line burns) may sometimes occur.

>Can lineovers occur after a controllable square canopy come out? In
> other words do I need to worry about seeing a lineover happen after
> riding a good canopy for a couple thousand feet?

No, generally. The canopy would have to deflate, drop, then reinflate to get a lineover after you open, and that's really rare (fortunately.)

>Can you combat a lineover? Is there anything that can be done?

If time, spin and altitude permits, you can try flaring hard and/or pulling on the appropriate line. If all else fails you can cut the offending line, but this is _very_ difficult to do and is really a last resort (i.e. if your reserve has a lineover.)

>I know you don't remove your steering toggles if you are in a line
>twist, is the same thing true for line overs?

You have to unstow your brakes if you are going to try to clear it. If it's obvious that it won't clear don't waste time unstowing your brakes.

>Lastly? If you do have a lineover on landing, what kind of impact can
> you expect? Fatal?

If you try to land a lineover, you mean? Students have landed under Mantas with lineovers with only moderate injuries, but a smaller canopy would likely result in a fatality.

[Jiggs 0]

I saw a student land a X300 with a lineover without getting injured, the landing was not great but that is to be expected. Very freaky to watch it.

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[pilotdave 0]

You can find a few lineover videos on skydivingmovies.com, including a couple on BASE jumps. See http://www.skydivingmovies.com/mals for some pics of lineovers and other malfunctions.

Dave

[Unstable 9]

When I asked my rigger this exact same question, he told me that a line over was caused by several factors, most of which aggiedave has given - but it is my understanding that proper quartering of the slider and ensuring that the slider is all the way to the grommets of the canopy is very critical in reducing the chance of experiencing a line over.

=========Shaun ==========

[Luv2Fall 0]

A question for anyone who can answer it.............is it true that line-overs are more likely to happen with a canopy that is Pro-Packed as opposed to one that is Flat-Packed?

[riggerrob 643]

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A question for anyone who can answer it.............is it true that line-overs are more likely to happen with a canopy that is Pro-Packed as opposed to one that is Flat-Packed?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes,
A common error - while PRO-packing _ is to drag the steering lines around the side of the canopy when you wrap the tail around it.
There are several ways to prevent this style of sloppy packing.

Performance Designs recommends pushing your knee against the stabilizers to prevent the steering lines form being dragged too far forward.

For the last thousand jumps, I have have reached around the outside of the canopy to pinch the steering lines in the center seam. I continue pinching the steering lines while wrapping the tail and laying the canopy on the floor. Then I kneel on the top corners of the orange label to prevent any further wandering by steering lines.

[ifics 0]

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You can find a few lineover videos on skydivingmovies.com,

I thought line twists were not that serious, almost every picture on that link is a chop do to line twist. I guess they are more serious then I thought.

http://207.189.27.51/mals/LineOverRT_1.jpg

^^^^ I don't think he is going to be able to recover from that line over

[lummy 4]

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I don't think he is going to be able to recover from that line over

was that Tom Aiello's lineover mal?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[Aviatrr 0]

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I thought line twists were not that serious, almost every picture on that link is a chop do to line twist.

Line twists are not that serious on most canopies, but on moderate to highly wing loaded ellipticals, it can cause a very nasty spinning malfunction. Actually, it can cause that on ANY canopy - but it's more common on highly loaded ellipticals.

Mike

[ifics 0]

I C! Thx

[riddler 0]

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If all else fails you can cut the offending line, but this is _very_ difficult to do and is really a last resort (i.e. if your reserve has a lineover.)

I know hooknswoop intentionally packed a lineover on his main to see if he could cut the offending line with a hook knife. He could not. He said it was impossible to see which line was a problem. It might be easier to do under a larger canopy.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Luv2Fall 0]

Thanks............I've heard that somewhere and just can't remember the source.......sounds logical to me.

[Lostinspace 0]

I have seen pictures before, but, can someone post a picture of line over?

[DexterBase 1]

here