WL Question

[juanesky 0]

Could anyone help me here?

I have been contemplating downsizing to a 190, currently my exit weight is 200, and fly a 210 canopy.

I'm very conservative, and don't contemplate swooping as part of my skydiving experience. At lease for a long while. I'm just looking for something more "packable".

Thanks.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[PhreeZone 20]

A 210 packs just as easy as a 190 does.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[juanesky 0]

Eric,

I have seen and used a 190 demo, and it was farily much responsive and maneuverable. What would be my wingloading if I decide to get a new canopy (with the green light from the S&TA?)

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[masher 1]

WL = exit weight (lb) / canopy area (ft^2)

.

so for you...

200/190 = 1.05

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Could anyone help me here?

You want to downsize so that packing will be easier? Is that really the reason you want to downsize?

Hook

[juanesky 0]

Not really, I think I am flying a truck with my weight, this canopy. I just did some demos with a sabre2 190 and it was much more responsive. It is like driving a bus-sportscar comparison.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[tattoojeff 0]

whats your question? are you going to hook it in if you down size to a 190? probably not but these forums are not the place to find out if your doing the right thing by downsizing. it may not sound like a bad idea to me but i dont know how your landings are. see what im saying. talk to your s and ta.

[juanesky 0]

THanks to all.

Definitely this is something I want an ok from my S&TA before doing it, but wanted to get an input from people that know about this.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Could anyone help me here?

I have been contemplating downsizing to a 190, currently my exit weight is 200, and fly a 210 canopy.

I'm very conservative, and don't contemplate swooping as part of my skydiving experience. At lease for a long while. I'm just looking for something more "packable".

Thanks.

There really isn't much difference in packing a 190 vs a 210.

I'm 250 out the door and jump a 190 zpo from Strong Ent. and find it to be a good canopy with enough speed...but it's no swooper.

A triathilon 190 is also a great all around canopy. I've good a bunch of jumps one one as well.

If your bio is uip to date with the jump numers....I would recommend staying with the 210 for a while longer.

It takes less time to pack than it does to heal.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Hooknswoop 19]

You want to downsize for more performance? I ask because the reason for downsizing is important.

Your wing loading would go from 0.95:1 to 1.05:1, a 0.1 increase. Do a search and find Bill Von's list of skills you should posses on your current canopy before contemplating downsizing. If you can do everything on the list, and by "do", I mean, "have done", and have the approval of the S & TA, then go for it. Remember, you can't downsize too slow, but you can downsize too fast.

Hook

[juanesky 0]

THanks for all the info, I PM Bill and will get to the list. I rather leave my canopy skills out of this post, but I have been just cleared by my STA for my C license.

The increase on my wingload will be done later, but I wanted to get as many facts as I could into the equation, for I've been worried of the increasingly high numbers of incidents-fatalities related to low turns, under panic......or generally under good canopy, grave pilot error.

Thanks to all, and blue skies.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Blahr 0]

Quote

Not really, I think I am flying a truck with my weight, this canopy. I just did some demos with a sabre2 190 and it was much more responsive. It is like driving a bus-sportscar comparison.

If you already demo'd a 190 and it felt good and you had no problems and you will only be loading at like 1.05 to 1
with a 200 lb exit weight I say go. That certainly satisfies
all reasonable cautionary practices, especially considering that you are a conservative pilot.

[jumper03 0]

Quote

WL = exit weight (lb) / canopy area (ft^2)

.

so for you...

200/190 = 1.05

? Doesn't it matter if it's a zp canopy or f111? Doesn't the type of material affect the wing loading formula?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[pilotdave 0]

Wing loading is a measure of how much weight each square foot of canopy has to hold up. Materials/planform have nothing to do with it.

Dave

[jumper03 0]

Quote

Wing loading is a measure of how much weight each square foot of canopy has to hold up. Materials/planform have nothing to do with it.

Dave

So in all this talk about wing loading requirements being tied to licensing - I was under the impression that was being put forth because there is a correlation of wing loading vs. performance - If I jump a zp and then a f111 of the same square footage, the performance between the two will be the same or no?

Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Quote

Wing loading is a measure of how much weight each square foot of canopy has to hold up. Materials/planform have nothing to do with it.

Dave

So in all this talk about wing loading requirements being tied to licensing - I was under the impression that was being put forth because there is a correlation of wing loading vs. performance - If I jump a zp and then a f111 of the same square footage, the performance between the two will be the same or no?

Jump

That's one of the arguments agains a WL to jump number restriction. It doesn't address the issue of high performance canopies being flown improperly.

2 canopies of the same fabric type and same size can be drastically different based on their design.

[kyros1 0]

Quote

WL = exit weight (lb) / canopy area (ft^2)

.

so for you...

200/190 = 1.05

if its more helpfull here you can calculate and play around with wing loadings http://www.blueskies-skydiving.com/Wingload.htm
You can also get informed by the manufacturer tables regarding size and weight

[winsor 236]

Quote

Could anyone help me here?

I have been contemplating downsizing to a 190, currently my exit weight is 200, and fly a 210 canopy.

I'm very conservative, and don't contemplate swooping as part of my skydiving experience. At lease for a long while. I'm just looking for something more "packable".

If you know how to pack, it's all about the same. I can show you how to get either one in the bag with a minimum of effort (stop by Tent 3 if you're at the Convention).

As far as performance goes, the difference between a 210 and a 190 isn't great enough to warrant the expenditure. Since you feel the 210 is a dog, it's probably a good canopy to keep on hand for night jumps and other cases where a lot of control on landing are useful.

My exit weight is also 200#, and I jump canopies from 99 to 282 sq. ft.. They're all fun. I wouldn't feel screwed if the only canopy I had on hand was a Sabre 210, and probably would have to work at it to fly it to anywhere near the limit of its performance.

You could do worse than to jump the hell out of your 210, and consider adding a smaller canopy to your lineup when you have hundreds of jumps on it. Jumping the odd demo for comparison in the meantime is not a bad idea, but you can learn some serious canopy control under your 210.

Rather than looking to downsize while your main is still operational, why not wear it out with repeated use and get your money's worth out of it? If it opens reliably and gets you to the ground in one piece time and again, it would appear to be holding up its end of the bargain.

I don't know anyone who wore out their first canopy that wishes they had downsized sooner. Stick around and you'll have plenty of time to jump all sorts of canopies.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[juanesky 0]

Quote

Quote

Could anyone help me here?

I have been contemplating downsizing to a 190, currently my exit weight is 200, and fly a 210 canopy.

I'm very conservative, and don't contemplate swooping as part of my skydiving experience. At lease for a long while. I'm just looking for something more "packable".

If you know how to pack, it's all about the same. I can show you how to get either one in the bag with a minimum of effort (stop by Tent 3 if you're at the Convention).
I won't be able to make due to work

As far as performance goes, the difference between a 210 and a 190 isn't great enough to warrant the expenditure. Since you feel the 210 is a dog, it's probably a good canopy to keep on hand for night jumps and other cases where a lot of control on landing are useful.

I'm keeping the canopy for I have decided to get another rig altogether. Also plan to due a few night jumps on 08/12 :-)

My exit weight is also 200#, and I jump canopies from 99 to 282 sq. ft.. They're all fun. I wouldn't feel screwed if the only canopy I had on hand was a Sabre 210, and probably would have to work at it to fly it to anywhere near the limit of its performance.

You could do worse than to jump the hell out of your 210, and consider adding a smaller canopy to your lineup when you have hundreds of jumps on it. Jumping the odd demo for comparison in the meantime is not a bad idea, but you can learn some serious canopy control under your 210.

Rather than looking to downsize while your main is still operational, why not wear it out with repeated use and get your money's worth out of it? If it opens reliably and gets you to the ground in one piece time and again, it would appear to be holding up its end of the bargain.

I don't know anyone who wore out their first canopy that wishes they had downsized sooner. Stick around and you'll have plenty of time to jump all sorts of canopies.

My question was based on the safety aspect of downsizing that much, I am not looking forward to kill or maime myself while jumping and landing. I think that most of us have seen first hand way too many issues with experienced and not so experienced people doing HP landings. I appreciate your comments, and honest appreciation, just got me thinking that I should just buy a rig with the same WL and consider downsizing to 180-170 when I'll get 100 jumps more at least. My hornet is definitely a good canopy and has not given me problems, even with line twists the damn thing flights straight.....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon