billvon 3,116 #26 September 30, 2003 >Billvon should interact here and give proper advice and guidelines on > a procedure that may be adhered to . . I'm not sure that coming up with hook-knife-usage-on-reserves guidelines makes any sense with modern equipment. Derek, an experienced AFF-JM and rigger, did an intentional lineover jump and tried to cut the offending line on a main. He couldn't do it - and he knew it was going to happen and knew exactly which line to cut. If you find yourself under a Raven IV at 13,000 feet due to a premature opening, and the reserve was damaged by the premature, then a hook knife may indeed make a difference. People can (and have) cut away their reserves with their knives and deployed their mains. Even with a lineover on the reserve, a large square and plenty of altitude may allow you the time to battle the madly flapping/spinning/distorting canopy, find that one line and cut it. It's usually the steering line, and those are nominally the easiest to find - they're right above the toggles. However, with a modern (i.e. heavily loaded, over 1:1) reserve, a cutaway at 2000 feet, and a lineover at 1800 feet, a hook knife won't do much other than get your mind off the upcoming impact. If the reserve is at _all_ controllable, you're generally going to be better off wrestling it into a tree or a body of water; both are softer than dirt or concrete, and you don't have much time to do anything else. If it's not controllable and you won't survive the landing, try that hook knife. You'll have to pick one line out of a mess of spinning and shaking rigging, at a goodly speed, with a significant amount of G-force to deal with - and you have about 20 seconds to do it. It's sort of like CPR in that odds of success are not high, but since the guy's going to die anyway you may as well give it a shot. And if you cut the wrong line? Well, you didn't make your situation any worse; you were going to bounce anyway. But like I mentioned above, if it's at ALL controllable, you're generally going to be better off flying the canopy all the way in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #27 September 30, 2003 QuoteOn this part of a reply here lack of understanding of when to use your knife is apparent You don't use a hook knife to cut a line on a line over on a main, you chop it. A hook knife is only used when you have a problem on a main reserve, like a line over ( okay i know excluding before anyone says it, cutting a riser or something of the sort on a main, after you have cut away but you still have your main dangling above you) First of all, I stated that if there is any chance of clearing a line over without cutting a line(such as pumping the brakes/risers, etc), I'll do that..I can always use my reserve if that doesn't work. I am not advocating that people whip out their hook knife and start cutting when there is a mal on their main....chop it and use the reserve. With that said, if I just did a hop&pop at 13,000ft for a CRW or cross country load, and I have a line over on my main that won't clear with any other method...and it's flying straight and not sinking much at the time...YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'M CUTTING THE OFFENDING LINE! Why the hell would I want to chop it and chance having a mal on the reserve when the main would be perfeclty landable with one cut line? I've landed a main with a broken line....couldn't even tell there was one by the way it was flying. Notice above I said I don't advocate people doing this....that's still true...I don't...but with full understanding of what the ramifications are I have no problem doing this if I feel I can do so safely. I certainly wouldn't teach others that - if a person has the experience and knowledge to pull something like this off, they will think about it and make the decision personally. If I have a lineover I can't clear on a main down low(at or below my normal deployment altitude) and it doesn't clear with rise/toggle input, I will(and HAVE) chop it. If I find myself in a situation that I'm too low to chop my main, but it has a line over(should never happen, but you have to plan for every possible situation)...I'll cut it, no doubt. The "rules" in this sport are not all black and white. There are recommendations for just about every conceivable problem, but it is up to EACH INDIVIDUAL skydiver to make the determination what is the best course of action. Of course, the decisions are made for students before they ever jump(if you see this, cutaway - if you see this, do this - etc) - but that is because they have no experience in the sport. Ask around - I'm sure you'll find that not everybody goes by the rules that you do, or shares your opinions on how to handle each situation. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #28 October 4, 2003 QuoteWith that said, if I just did a hop&pop at 13,000ft for a CRW or cross country load, and I have a line over on my main that won't clear with any other method...and it's flying straight and not sinking much at the time...YOU BETTER BELIEVE I'M CUTTING THE OFFENDING LINE! At first, this sounded foolishly expensive"line repair on main" but a cutaway now-a-days could cost a small fortune, if anything is lost. Quote Why the hell would I want to chop it and chance having a mal on the reserve... But this I just don't get...I always feel better after a reserve ride. I'd chop it for any GOOD reason...like "the DZO's not looking".----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #29 October 4, 2003 Quote Quote Why the hell would I want to chop it and chance having a mal on the reserve... But this I just don't get...I always feel better after a reserve ride. I'd chop it for any GOOD reason...like "the DZO's not looking". hmmm. what did you not get?namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #30 October 4, 2003 QuoteAt first, this sounded foolishly expensive"line repair on main" but a cutaway now-a-days could cost a small fortune, if anything is lost. Repairing a single line on a main is less expensive for me than a reserve repack...and that's if I don't lose the main, freebag, or either of the handles. Quote But this I just don't get...I always feel better after a reserve ride. I'd chop it for any GOOD reason...like "the DZO's not looking". I sure hope you are kidding here. I chop my main when it is not safe to land it. I feel pretty good after a reserve ride....but I've had that feeling plenty of times, and I don't go looking for another reason to have it. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #31 October 5, 2003 I will... upon seeing my reserve out... after a cut away.. from a malfunctioning main... Will know without a doubt that I am having a really bad day. If I survive I will have a long talk with my rigger... If I dont survive I will haunt the shit out of him. Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #32 October 11, 2003 QuoteI will... upon seeing my reserve out... after a cut away.. from a malfunctioning main... Will know without a doubt that I am having a really bad day. If I survive I will have a long talk with my rigger... If I dont survive I will haunt the shit out of him. Jeanne I would not automatically blame the rigger for a malfunction on the reserve. Body position is a very important part of the equation. Chopping a spinning main and pulling the reserve before you are stable can cause a malfunction. Don't get me wrong though, there is not always the time to get stable before pulling the reserve. Sometimes our choices are not between good and bad, but between bad and worse. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #33 October 11, 2003 QuoteAt first, this sounded foolishly expensive"line repair on main" but a cutaway now-a-days could cost a small fortune, if anything is lost. Not sure if you are serious? I reserve repack would cost me at least $35. Since most lineovers are steering lines, Given the time I am going to cut the line before I even think about chopping it. (assuming I have a knife). A lower steering line should not cost more than $10. btw- what's up with all the lineovers people are claiming in this thread. That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #34 October 11, 2003 Hey Josh, have you never seen Eric Butts' video of his reserve malfunction? He barely got it cleared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #35 October 11, 2003 QuoteHey Josh, have you never seen Eric Butts' video of his reserve malfunction? He barely got it cleared. Can you post it here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #36 October 13, 2003 QuoteQuoteAt first, this sounded foolishly expensive"line repair on main" but a cutaway now-a-days could cost a small fortune, if anything is lost. Not sure if you are serious? Yea...it's hard to tell some times. Quote I reserve repack would cost me at least $35. My reserve repacks and jumps go on my tab, witch I never see. I work more than play on the DZ. Quote Since most lineovers are steering lines, Given the time I am going to cut the line before I even think about chopping it. (assuming I have a knife). A lower steering line should not cost more than $10. I think a Line over could cause a lot of damage to the top skin of the canopy while I fumble with my hook knife"that I did not even wear on the last 5 jumps". The nearest Rigger "B"(Master) is in the next Province. I have a Rigger "A" that knows how pack my reserve (4 times no problems ) and I know how to work it. I try to keep my handles and have no free bag. Cuttaway is a good choice for me. And I like the pratice... Quote btw- what's up with all the lineovers people are claiming in this thread. Don't know...never had one. GhostPlane anyone?----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpgod 0 #37 October 15, 2003 use a high risor input to stable my descent if at all possible. use a hook knife to cut the line -- ONLY -- if it's a A line and is accessible. otherwise, try like heck to control it and aim for something soft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #38 October 15, 2003 Quoteuse a hook knife to cut the line -- ONLY -- if it's a A line and is accessible. Line-overs are steering lines and, rarely, "D" lines. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
