riggerrob 643 #26 August 13, 2003 First of all, Cypres refusing to fire when it should is really rare. The first time that happened, the batteries were 3.5 years old and it was a cold day. The replacement schedule for Cypres 1 batteries is every two years or 500 jumps. Since the rig in question was used by students, it probably had more than 500 jumps. Anyone who ignores maintenance schedules is asking for trouble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #27 August 13, 2003 "I keep reading about people bouncing without the cypress firing." I doubt there are that many incidents out there where the Cypress didn't fire around where it should have when it should have. Make sure you really look at your numbers. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #28 August 13, 2003 The problem I have with Cypres is that the company never seems to admit when they are wrong! That makes me nervous...they always blame the jumper.....and it shuts off when it misfires so when you bounce...all your friends and family think you're an idiot for not turning it on! If you want one, great.......The cost vs risk ratio is the reason I don't bother to buy one....I'm gonna pull on time...If I bounce......shit happens.... scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #29 August 13, 2003 Hmmm - they don't "always" blame the jumper as you say. If I remember correctly, one of the first warnings they have in their instruction manual is "do not rely on this equipment". I know I am glad I have one, yet, I jump like I don't. I try to only jump with people I know, I try to be as aware as possible of my surroundings. If you bounced when a Cypress could've saved you, try explaining that one to your friends and family. I care not to. Good luck. Blue wons... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #30 August 13, 2003 I like the sound of this. I wouldn't expect it to work beyojnd its design parameters - sort of like a car air bag that cant' stop all deaths, but it will work reliably within its design parameters. Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #31 August 13, 2003 QuoteI was simply stating what Cypress told us over and over and over again at PIA. And that is that it is not a foot reading that it goes off of but a pressure reading. The instrument can't measure altitude, it can only calculate the altitude based on pressure, just like an altimeter. I don't understand why that bothered you?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
digurman 0 #32 August 14, 2003 Now my confidence in the device is shattered again. Not enough to keep me from jumping though. This does sound like the device has a certain failure rate that is greater than that of systems in use elsewhere that are not life critical. Has there been experimentation with laser devices to calculate speed and AGL? Words aren't real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #33 August 14, 2003 Quoteand it shuts off when it misfires so when you bounce... You have proof of this? If so show us, if not keep the speculation to yourself. Quote...If I bounce...... You already did. This makes most people a little more humble. Wise up.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #34 August 14, 2003 I heard last weekend at my DZ of a local guy whose cypres II shut off twice during jumps. Yes, the account was second hand, so take it as you wish, but I trust the accuracy of the story. He was sure it was on before boarding the plane. If we can't speculate and pass on other people's stories in this forum, where can we?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 August 14, 2003 Sure it shut off? Airtec just released a bulletin stating that a few processors for the control unit display ONLY had been discovered to have an intermitent problem. When conditions were right an electromagnetic interference would cause the display to go blank, but not affect the status, or operation of the unit. They went on to say there is no need for the units to be serviced before their due date, however if there were any concerns, owners of affected units could send them in to have the issue corrected, at no charge. I'll post the bullitin as soon as I get back to the computer I have it stored on. Discussing an incident is one thing, and IMO perfectly acceptable in these forums. I applaud your effort, interest, and desire to learn more about a story you came across. The previous poster IMO is relying on sensationalisim and dramatics to get attention, to the disservice of those who wish to learn and share. I feel they are succeeding all too well. Of course that is just my opinion.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #36 August 14, 2003 QuoteNow my confidence in the device is shattered again. Look, AFAIK there are over 300 documented Cypres safes world wide. I have not seen any documented Cypres "failures" (i.e. did not fire when it should have). The reason that the Cypres has been so successful as a product - in spite of its high price -, is its reliability. I believe you can trust the device, but NEVER EVER rely on it. It is constructed to be your last "out" without firing in situations when it should not. That is why there a lots of situations where the Cypres will not safe your ass. You need to familiarize yourself with what exactly the job of the Cypres is. A general rule is that IF it fires and you were conscious at the time, you should have a think about quitting the sport.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rdesilets 0 #37 August 14, 2003 The CYPRES is designed as a BACKUP to you pulling your own main/reserve. When all else fails it is waiting to save your life. If you don't have any confidence in it, save yourself some cash and jump without one. However, the day you are burning through 750' you might be glad you invested the money in it. If it does not fire.. well you are in the same situation that you would be in if you did not have one.. however if it works like its supposed to you will be a happy, alive camper.. Personally, I have a CYPRES and am glad I do. I don't think of it as a replacement for me keeping track of my altitude, keeping current on my emergency procedures, etc. However, in the unlikely event that I did not/could not do it myself I will have confidence that the CYPRES will do its job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #38 August 14, 2003 QuoteI have not seen any documented Cypres "failures" (i.e. did not fire when it should have). I would count a fire when it was not supposed to fire as a failure too... But that being said, there are not many of those either.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #39 August 14, 2003 QuoteNow my confidence in the device is shattered again. This does sound like the device has a certain failure rate that is greater than that of systems in use elsewhere that are not life critical. You certainly don't need to feel that shook up about its reliability. Let me tell you how it used to be. Twenty years ago experienced jumpers didn't use AAD's. There were a few models on the market, but they were bulky and had a tendency to sometimes fire prematurely (high), which was really dangerous. So we didn't wear them. Every now and then somebody with hundreds, or even thousands of jumps would go in after a low reserve pull or no pull at all. When the Cypres came out, it established its reliability to the point that it is now widely accepted and used by experienced jumpers, which says a lot in itself. As several people have already said, the Cypres is a BACKUP device - NOTHING short of being physically incapacitated excuses you from your personal responsibility to pull your reserve handle. 750 ft. is horribly low, something like 4 seconds from impact. Even with a Cypres opening, you're going to be lucky to get 15-20 seconds under canopy before you land. The Cypres is a device, it can fail - but so can a reserve parachute. I'd suggest you take a look at the change in fatality statistics over the last ten or twenty years. "Low pull/no pull" used to be the leading cause of death in the sport. That's not the case anymore and the Cypres has helped make that part of our sport safer. Personally, with a wife and two kids - I'll NEVER jump without one, not even once. My life is worth the price, it's something I'll always wear and hopefully never need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #40 August 15, 2003 Quote I'd suggest you take a look at the change in fatality statistics over the last ten or twenty years. "Low pull/no pull" used to be the leading cause of death in the sport. That's not the case anymore and the Cypres has helped make that part of our sport safer. www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/fatalities.gif for a graph that illustrates your point.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 12 #41 August 15, 2003 QuoteQuote I'd suggest you take a look at the change in fatality statistics over the last ten or twenty years. "Low pull/no pull" used to be the leading cause of death in the sport. That's not the case anymore and the Cypres has helped make that part of our sport safer. www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/fatalities.gif for a graph that illustrates your point. Cypres is so good, that the no-pulls dropped drastically 2 years before it became popular? Am I reading the graph wrong or where there a large # of jumpers using Cypres by 1990?----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #42 August 15, 2003 Do you ever read the fatality reports in Parchutist? 3 out of 4 deaths are people who have AAD's. I found that interesting....most people fuck up on landings (myself included). Why is it that when ever the report says "the Cypres was sent to Airtec for inspection", we never get a follow up? are they hiding somthing? I've read that they sent the unit in for inspection on quite a few people who have bounced, and never heard any explanation why the unit didn't fire...... Go to skydivingfatalities.com if you think I'm full of shit...... Like I said before...(you guys take everything I say out of context) if you want one, buy one...... I'm just saying, because of what I've read and heard.... I personally don't like the company because they don't seem to disclose why their units don't fire properly. Sorry to insult you're fragile ego....I'm just being a vigilant consumer.... scott p.s. quit taking everything I say so damn seriously!...this discussion is for fun and education.. What? are you a shareholder for Airtec or somthing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #43 August 15, 2003 QuoteI've read that they sent the unit in for inspection on quite a few people who have bounced, and never heard any explanation why the unit didn't fire QuoteI'm just saying, because of what I've read and heard.... I personally don't like the company because they don't seem to disclose why their units don't fire properly. Show me where you have read and heard this. QuoteSorry to insult you're fragile ego.... I don't have one, and you've made no attacks on it anyway. QuoteI'm just being a vigilant consumer.... You may think so. I believe you are just trying to stir the pot to get attention. Slow down, learn before you speak. Quote quit taking everything I say so damn seriously!...this discussion is for fun and education.. I don't. QuoteWhat? are you a shareholder for Airtec or somthing? No. I am however concerned that in a format such as this one (DZ.com) inexperienced, and impresionable people are easily confused by reactionary statements. If you truly want to help educate, please contribute in a more constructive manner. Rather than spouting your speculative rhetoric, express it as an opinion and encourage others to form there own Ideas. Try to be more of a teacher than a puppet master. Blah. Blah. Blah. I'm done.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #44 August 15, 2003 And the Cypress will not fire if the Battery is flat. There was a fatal (in Holland, I think) about 6 years back where a dude had a racer (2 cutter) with a 5 year old battery. It activated, but there was not enough juice for the cutters to fire. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #45 August 15, 2003 holy sh..... did his rigger never check the damn battery ???---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #46 August 15, 2003 Quote QuoteI'm just saying, because of what I've read and heard.... I personally don't like the company because they don't seem to disclose why their units don't fire properly. Show me where you have read and heard this. No. If you truly want to help educate, please contribute in a more constructive manner. Rather than spouting your speculative rhetoric, express it as an opinion and encourage others to form there own Ideas. Try to be more of a teacher than a puppet master. Blah. Blah. Blah. I'm done. Ok let me start by saying this is my OPINION. If scottjaco has talked to me he heard it from me. I think the cypress is a great device. I think at this time their is no better AAD on the market. I do not like the company. If you would like ne to take up more spase to tell you why I don't like them I shall. But it is just ny opinion. I also know that their are others who think the same as me. I beleave that they choose not to post because people will try to berate them or think that they are unsafe as I'm sure some one will do to me. Just remember this. Their are alot of people who have said thier "OPINION" in this threid but no one asked them to back it up bcause it conformed to thiers. Fire away.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #47 August 15, 2003 I'm actually interested in hearing why you don't like cypres....don't worry..I won't freak out. I've already explained the cost vs. risk ratio to you guys but I'm interested in why you don't like the company....... thanks, scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #48 August 15, 2003 Scottjaco keep in mind it is not cypress I don't like. It is Airtec. I know it is splitting hairs but I don't want others to misunderstand. And I will pm you later with my thoughts.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #49 August 15, 2003 Have you called Cliff at SSK or Helmut at Airtec to try and get some of the answers you are seeking?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #50 August 15, 2003 I asume this was directed to me. If not sorry. I have not called them but I did atemp to ask Helmut some questions in person at this years PIA. The short of it was I felt like I was treated like a child and he was all knowing. Altought he wold never give any proof of any thing. He basicly danced around my and others questions. With answres such as. The cypress is the most acurate device and the other devices (such as altimiters etc.) were inferior or, The Cypress knows when you are on your back front side etc or, That question dose not have any thing to do with the topic at hand. Because unless you were asking questions about military aplications or their new pilot set up it was not on topic. I not ony shop for the producs that I bye I also shop the PPL I bye them from. And it is my opinion that I choose not to finachaly suport Airteck in any way if I can help it. Here is a question or two for every one. Has anyone ever been told that thier cypress needs to be replaced or fixed when you had it sent back for any of it's 2yr,4yr,8yr checks? How many PPL receved some one elses Cypress when they sent thiers in for a check? How many PPL even know for sure they have thier origanal Cypress that they bought or did your rigger just not check or tell you?-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
