Canopy Choice

[Freakflyer804 0]

Alright, I got a question for everyone... I am about to buy my second set of gear, and I am debating on canopies... I can't decide, it's either a Stiletto 135 or a crossfire2 129.... I haven't had to much experience with the icarus canopies, but I have heard some positives, Untill now I have been jumping a stiletto 150 for about 100 or so jumps... Your thoughts. Thanks blue ones.
-Scott

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What doesn't kill you... only requires brief hospitalization!!

[wmw999 2,584]

Well, I don't fly high performance (makes me an expert, right?), but the usual suggestion is to change either size or planform. The Crossfire is cross-braced; the Stiletto is a smaller version of what you have. My suggestion would be the Stiletto for that reason.

Based on your profile, my other (and considerably less knowledgeable) opinion is that you might want to consider getting another 150 and learning to fly the shit out of it first. You probably haven't explored anything close to all of the possibilities.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AggieDave 6]

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The Crossfire is cross-braced

Nope, its not crossbraced.

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opinion is that you might want to consider getting another 150 and learning to fly the shit out of it first.

That's a cool idea. I've been flying my Heatwave since about 200 jumps and I'm still getting better at it, going faster and getting longer swoops...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Freakflyer804 0]

I am looking for a canopy that will carry me for a couple hundred jumps(if not a thousand)... this is my treat to myself when I get back to US... I am thinking of better flight characteristics... and 100 jumps was just a rough guess...

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What doesn't kill you... only requires brief hospitalization!!

[skymedic 0]

the Xfire is NOT Xbraced. read the Icarus website or better yet take a look at the canopy it self. as for the canopy, I'd suggest going with a same size Xfire demo. see how you like it. it is a very busy canopy...and that might not be what you want. demo and then see.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[wmw999 2,584]

Oops. Large and embarrassing one, too

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Sorry Scott, never jumped the Crossfire 2, maybe you should demo them both out. Personally I dig my Stiletto but that is coming from a Spectre as what I thought was a perfect first canopy. I wouldn't trade my Stiletto now period. But if you've flown the Stiletto already for a while and are seeking a change, try out the Crossfire and see if you like it.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[Kris 0]

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see how you like it. it is a very busy canopy...and that might not be what you want. demo and then see.

A fully elliptical wing is a pretty busy canopy to be under to begin with, but I found the Crossfire2 demo that I tried at Rantoul to be a lot less busy than my Stiletto.

Didn't hunt as much during the openings, almost zero oversteer on both toggles and risers...the thing flew like it was on thought-guided rails.

But you raise a great point.

That having been said though, when flying any decently wing-loaded canopy (or any canopy for that matter) like that, never let your body get somewhere that your mind wasn't at at least 5 minutes before.


FreakFlyer: The best thing you can do is to demo both of them. If you're going to try a Crossfire2, I would demo one close to the same size (a 149) Stiletto you are flying now so that you will have a good comparison to work from. You may find that you like the 149 or you may decide that you may want to go a bit smaller. Great thing with Icarus, if you don't want a 119, they'll build you a 135...or 136, or 134, or even a 132.7 for no extra charge.

Also, as others have said, make sure you are wringing the piss out of the canopy you have now. You should be able to do BillVon's list on your current canopy before moving on to the next one:

Can you:

-flat turn 90 degrees at 50 feet?
-flare turn at least 45 degrees?
-land crosswind and in no wind?
-land reliably within a 10 meter circle?
-initiate a high performance landing with double front risers and front riser turn to landing?
-land on slight uphills and downhills?
-land with rear risers?

Personally, I've done all of those (including a few intentional downwinders) on my Stiletto except for the flare-turn which I am still working on.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Blahr 0]

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Oops. Large and embarrassing one, too

Wendy W.

No worries, your initial disclaimer regarding high performance kinda covers your butt some here.

An honest enough mistake especially considering the name of the canopy in question. PErhaps it should be named the "Non-Crossfire"

[Freakflyer804 0]

Ever since I started jumping the stilletto 150 people have advised working on canopy skills... and I am one to take advice from ones I trust, so I got started real early, that is why I feel it is a safe step.

As far as the list of questions... have done all at one point or another. you said that you have flown both? How do you compare them? speed? turns? landings? recovery arc in comparison to the stilletto?
thanks for all your help
-Scott

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What doesn't kill you... only requires brief hospitalization!!

[rhino 0]

Demo...

[Kris 0]

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As far as the list of questions... have done all at one point or another. you said that you have flown both? How do you compare them? speed? turns? landings? recovery arc in comparison to the stilletto?

Keep in mind, I only got to fly the Crossfire2 3 times at Rantoul, I was in the saddle right under 3K each time.

I have over 200 jumps on a Stiletto 190 (loaded 1.35:1), the Crossfire2 was a 169 (loaded 1.53:1). They didn't have a 189 for me to try for an honest size-size comparison.

All openings were fantastic. It didn't snivel as much as my Stiletto, but it was more stable and I didn't have to give it near as much harness input during the snivel to maintain heading. The openings, while not as long, were not hard at all, to quote Skycat, "It's like falling into warm ice cream".

To be honest, I couldn't really tell a difference in forward speed between the CF and my Stiletto. What small difference there was is in the form that the CF seems to be slightly more ground-hungry.

The first jump I was way off the dropzone, almost 2 miles from the spectator area. I followed Icarus' advice and popped the brakes and gave the canopy a couple of inches of rear riser and had no problems making it back to the landing area. I had plenty of altitude to play a bit and setup for my landing.

On other jumps I was able to wring the canopy a bit more. The toggle & riser pressure were noticeably lower on the CF but here is where things really got different. The CF really loses altitude in a turn, especially a riser turn. On a hard riser 180 with harness input, the canopy stayed in the dive for a couple of hundred feet until I bumped the toggles to bring it out.

When I do these maneuvers on my Stiletto, I can see the canopy warp and flutter a bit, the CF never did. It stayed quite rigid and solid. Whether that was due to the wingloading or not I do not know, but it was nice.

It didn't seem to oversteer as much on risers and toggles as my Stiletto does. My Stiletto doesn't oversteer much at all (probably due to its size) but the CF bounced back to level almost as soon as I stopped input.

Landings were a breeze. The control range is a lot deeper than the Stiletto. It takes a little more to get the same initial plane-out, but once you're there, whoa! The flare just builds and builds. The toggles had about 6-8" of slack before tail deflection so I was worried about being able to flare fully but it wasn't an issue. The landings were pretty much 0-wind and I never needed to go to full arm extension before the canopy was completely shut down. I may have had to slide out a couple of feet at most. At no time did the canopy act like it was going to stall or bow-tie.

The last couple of jumps I did a 45 to double fronts then a 90 to double fronts. It was really nice not to have to start my turns as low as I do on my Stiletto. I found the larger recovery arc on the CF2 to be a really great thing to have.

I'm ordering a 159-164 sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I have a friend who currently jumps a Stiletto and after demoing another friend's Crossfire2, he said the Crossfire2 was "the best". But even before all this, I knew the Crossfire2 was for me and I ordered one a while back and am still awaiting it's arrival. But then what do I know? I've yet to jump a Spinetto.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[billvon 3,107]

>Your thoughts.

The Crossfire is an all-around more competent canopy than the Stiletto (IMO of course.) It is less ground-hungry, which makes it a bit less of a swoop machine, but openings are a lot more reliable, it's a lot more stable in turbulence, and it has a greater flare range. It may be my next canopy, depending on what wears out first.

I would recommend borrowing something like a Crossfire 139, putting 20-30 jumps on it, then deciding whether you want the 129. As someone else mentioned, make sure you can do all the survival tricks on the 139 (i.e. crosswind landings, flat and flare turns) before you downsize.

[Freakflyer804 0]

Ok... I talked to my DZO last night and she suggested the NITRON by precision. Has anyone had any experiences with these?

I have heard some good things, the only thing that makes me think a little more about it, is that she just recently became a distributor for precision.

She tells me that it is better than either the stilletto or the Xfire. The Nitron is new to me so what can you tell me? Thanks again for all your help!!
-Scott

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What doesn't kill you... only requires brief hospitalization!!

[Jimbo 0]

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She tells me that it is better than either the stilletto or the Xfire. The Nitron is new to me so what can you tell me? Thanks again for all your help!!

DEMO. PD and Icarus have demo programs, I imagine that Precision does too. This is a big purchase, both in terms of dollars and potential impact to your skydiving future. Call the various manufacturers, talk to them, jump their product, and buy what you like best. It really is the only sane way to do this.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Freakflyer804 0]

The only problem i have right now is that I am in Bagdad, so I only have what other people are telling me... I'm not ordering it untill I get back...
I would just like to know what other people thought of them so I can have an idea of what to expect.
-Scott

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What doesn't kill you... only requires brief hospitalization!!

[billvon 3,107]

>I talked to my DZO last night and she suggested the NITRON by
>precision. Has anyone had any experiences with these?

Jumped it a few times. Nice canopy, but in that category I'd go with the Crossfire over the Nitron. The inflated stabilizers are sorta hokey.

[Designer 0]

I do very involved studies before I buy a parachute.Get as much info from the manufacturer as you can.Flight performance,Material info.etc.

[bclark 0]

I put 700+ jumps on Stiletto 135 and now have about 200 on my Stiletto 120. I recently demo'd a Crossfire 2 109. The Crossfire opens BEAUTIFULLY. I put about 30 jumps on it and it never whacked me and only occasionally dove off heading. Flight characteristics were not notably different than my Stiletto 120. I felt comfortable hooking the Crossfire after about 5 jumps on it. The Crossfire changes heading faster and dives more in a front riser turn than a Stiletto. It has a noticably bigger recovery arc than a Stiletto. The Crossfire has a bigger control range and more powerful bottom end flare than a Stiletto. I liked the Crossfire 2 but I still like my Stiletto more. My next canopy will probably be a Stiletto 107. I just get better swoops out of my Stiletto. Probably just what I am familiar with.