Blahr 0 #1 September 8, 2003 All, I grow increasingly alarmed and confused by the number of hard pull type mals that I see. I would be inclined to think that a large percentage of these could be avoided by adding some strength training to the routine. Skydiving is an active, potentially dangerous, physical sport. In EVERY other sport with these characteristics, physical training is an integral part of the whole thing. This enhances every aspect of it from enjoyment to performance to safety. I have seen numerous people that regularly participate in this activity for whom the ONLY exercise they get is humping their gear back to the packing area and lifting a bottle of suds. Wouldnt you want to do everything you could to increase your level of safety? I cant imagine cutting away or worse yet, dying, because I couldnt exert more than 25 lbs of force against a handle or lift my arms during a fast spin that is putting a few G's on me It doesnt take all that much time or effort to develop a little upper body strength. Its totally unnecessary to take it to the level that I have in order to DRASTICALLY increase your safety, not to mention the tons of benefits outside of skydiving that being fit can give you. Fitness increases reaction time and speeds reflexes. How much might this help? A lot I'd say. Fitness increases strength and flexibility. I'll bet this would drastically DECREASE the number of minor landing injuries such as pulled muscles and twisted ankles. Why do I never see any discussion about this most basic of training tools? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #2 September 8, 2003 I think the better option is for people to be more careful when packing their pilot chute. It shouldn't take a great amount of strength to pull.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #3 September 8, 2003 Quote Fitness increases strength and flexibility. I'll bet this would drastically DECREASE the number of minor landing injuries such as pulled muscles and twisted ankles. Quote Flexibility is so important! I too wonder how many injuries would not have happened if even just a little pre jump stretching were practiced. And as you get older it becomes even MORE important... GOOD POST! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #4 September 8, 2003 A better option is to employ both, not just one or the other. I didnt mean to suggest strength training instead of all the other important stuff, I mean to include it along WITH all the other stuff. Stuff happens even when we pack correctly. How can using only one method of increasing safety rather than two be a better option? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #5 September 8, 2003 getting in shape is a good idea. It will save your life through not having to have a heart bypass. Packing right is a good idea - you wont have a hard pull. IMO it does not matter if its your main or your pc you are PACKING A MAL if you dont do it right. A hard pull you have to use your reserve for is a mal. Pack right to stop mals, work out to get healthy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 September 8, 2003 Hard pulls and hard cutaways are two totally seperate things. Hard pulls care caused by mispacking of the pilot chute. The angle in which hyou pull is not one of the most leverage and the BOC can hold the PC in more then you think it can some times. This is cured by changing the packing method on the PC. Hard cutaways are something totally different. Normal cutaway force might only be 5-7 pounds but when you add in dirty cables, stiff rings, highly loaded G forces and things the force can get to be 30-50 pounds rapidly. There is great video at the end of "Just your average freefly video" from MonkeyClaw of a hard cutaway. You have to see it to understand just how high the forces can get some times.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #7 September 8, 2003 Its not my intent to debate the amount of force necessary in different situations. Only to point out that increasing physical strength increases your ability to deal with those types of situations. Can a hard pull be avoided by correct packing? Most of the time, yes. Can they be avoided 100% of the time? Nope. Could some additional upper body strength increase your chances of survival on that occasion where you did everything right and still had a mal and then a hard pull on either the main PC or the cutaway or reserve handles? Yup. It can make a difference. If you deny this simple fact, I dont know how to respond to you Sometimes shit happens thats beyond our control. Being physically fit can really make a difference when that occasion arises. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 September 8, 2003 QuoteBeing physically fit can really make a difference when that occasion arises. Agree 100%, also, fitness makes you a better skydiver. If you disagree, then there is only one way for you to find out. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 September 8, 2003 QuoteQuote Fitness increases strength and flexibility. I'll bet this would drastically DECREASE the number of minor landing injuries such as pulled muscles and twisted ankles. Quote Flexibility is so important! I too wonder how many injuries would not have happened if even just a little pre jump stretching were practiced. And as you get older it becomes even MORE important... GOOD POST! Who are you call old?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #10 September 8, 2003 Being in shape is not going to prevent centrifugal force from getting the best of you. At a little over l g. you will not be able to lift you arms. That said, being in shape will increase your enjoyment and performance in any activity. And as you said, it does not take that much effort.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #11 September 8, 2003 QuoteBeing in shape is not going to prevent centrifugal force from getting the best of you. At a little over l g. you will not be able to lift you arms. It would take considerably more than a little over 1 g to pin my arms. Assume for the sake of argument that my right arm weighs 20 lbs. At 2 g it will weigh 40 lbs at 3 g it will weigh 60 lbs etc etc. Without mentioning how much I can lift , I absolutely guarantee that even at 3 g I can raise my arms from my sides all the way to over my head. This would not be necessary to pull my cutaway handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 September 8, 2003 I doesn't quite work that way. It is not the same a lifting a weight. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #13 September 8, 2003 I realize that its not just like lifting weights. I can make a few assumptions though. I can take a 60 lb dumbell in each hand and without using any momentum or body english, while seated, lift them both from my sides to above my head in one slow continuous motion to full extention. This is 60 lbs in addition of the weight of my arms, which do weigh close to 20 lbs. This makes each arm weigh approximately 80 lbs. In this case, the majority of the weight is at the very end of my arms. If this were simply my empty arms at 3 times the normal gravitational force, my arms would weigh LESS than this and also the weight would be evenly distributed throughout my arms, not all concentrated at the ends where the weights are. This consentration of the weight at the very ends actually makes the scenario even harder. In reality, lifting my arms at 3 g would be easier than the scenario I described which I CAN do. The movement with the weights is not theoretical. I would suggest that if a person cannot lift their arms at only a little over 1 g, that makes them the poster child for my argument. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I am simply taking what I already know I can do for a fact and comparing it to what you are saying. The increase in force necessary to move against increasing force of gravity might not be exactly linear, but I dont believe that its geometric or exponential either. I believe I could raise my arms while sustaining 3 g's In reality I believe I could do it under even higher g's than that. I'm just using 3 in my argument because of the claim that just over 1 would be too much for me. We have kinda gotten off the main thrust of my post here Bottom line, I believe that greater strength can save your butt in a high speed spinning mal. Greater fitness in general can enhance enjoyment, peformance, and safety as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #14 September 8, 2003 I totality agree with you that being in shape can save you life. If we run into each other sometime I will buy you a cool one and try to explain it better. Be Safe SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #15 September 8, 2003 QuoteI totality agree with you that being in shape can save you life. If we run into each other sometime I will buy you a cool one and try to explain it better. Be Safe Sparky Why not explain it better right now? I dont have a problem being wrong. I'm quite good at it as a matter of fact If I AM wrong, I would enjoy the opportunity to learn more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #16 September 8, 2003 QuoteStuff happens even when we pack correctly. How can using only one method of increasing safety rather than two be a better option? yea and dont wear shorts with key loops in the pockets! LOL I agree with ya, I used to strecth all the time b4 I jumped(after a 3 hr ride to the DZ) now I kinda do that only when I feel tight. my gym routine keeps my semi- fit. I have just gotten back into the gym 10 days ago so I will feel my health and attitude get better here significantly. here's a common misconception. just b/c someone is thin most ppl think they are fit. Im 29 and can out run anyone in my shop...and I'll put the bet on that I may be in the top 10 in my whole SQDRN. ( coupla hundred ppl) most of these "young bucks" are so out of shape its digusting.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #17 September 8, 2003 Aren't we at 1G standing still? Zero G = Weightless 1G = Bodyweight 2G = Twice bodyweight Etc... I could be way off with this one, but I don't think I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #18 September 8, 2003 Quote Aren't we at 1G standing still? Zero G = Weightless 1G = Bodyweight 2G = Twice bodyweight Etc... I could be way off with this one, but I don't think am. You are right on with this one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #19 September 8, 2003 Quote most of these "young bucks" are so out of shape its digusting. JT, at 29 years old you ARE one of those young bucks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sburkart 0 #20 September 9, 2003 QuoteThere is great video at the end of "Just your average freefly video" from MonkeyClaw of a hard cutaway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the problem with that dive the fact that the jumpers hand was wrapped in some lines, which resulted in a very low cutaway and reserve pull? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #21 September 9, 2003 QuoteQuote most of these "young bucks" are so out of shape its digusting. JT, at 29 years old you ARE one of those young bucks LOL I meant the 18-21 age group.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #22 September 9, 2003 I totally agree. I truly believe that if you are in shape you are more likely to walk away from an accident that might have crippled or seriously injured another person who's not in condition. I used to ride broncs. The first rodeo I entered I landed on my neck, broke my arm, and was out for over a half hour before regaining consciousness. I woke up in an ambulance. I think it might have been a lot worse if I hadn't been in condition. Who knows maybe I would have died or been crippled for life. The riding events in Rodeo are really a tough racket to break into. I've gone end over end lot's of times through the dirt and being in condition is what saves you. It decides who goes to the hospital or who comes back to enter the next rodeo. Weight training along with some aerobics really helps a lot. The gear has improved a lot over the years, and maybe it isn't vital to be in top condition now, but still there are times when it pays off. I remember a girl back in the 70's who had more than one total malfunction because she wasn't strong enough to pull her main ripcord. She even had a hard time pulling her reserve ripcord. Opening a belly reserve when you are goin terminal is no fun. Your canopy inflates and then you fall to the end of your lines. This girl did this at least twice. She was no quitter though and continued jumping by starting to lift weights and also getting an easier rig to open. We nicknamed her "Total". I'm far from being in top condition now, and am getting to be an old fart, but I still lift weights......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #23 September 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuote Fitness increases strength and flexibility. I'll bet this would drastically DECREASE the number of minor landing injuries such as pulled muscles and twisted ankles. Quote Flexibility is so important! I too wonder how many injuries would not have happened if even just a little pre jump stretching were practiced. And as you get older it becomes even MORE important... GOOD POST! Who are you call old? Quote ME!!! (of course it might be the 'miles not the years') ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #24 September 9, 2003 Heck, I am only 42 years old, it has just been a real hard 42 years.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #25 September 9, 2003 Quote Heck, I am only 42 years old, it has just been a real hard 42 years. *** Hummm... Must be that 'new' math... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
