strange rule...

[Blahr 0]

IT just become apparent to me through reading various things that a person can make AFF jumps at age 16 with parental consent but they CANT make a tandem.

Is this actually the case or am I misunderstanding?
If true, can someone explain the logic behind this?

I ask because my step-son is 15 and wants to try jumping next year. I would allow him to make a tandem but I wouldnt allow him to jump solo. Lots of reasons for this but the bottom line is that I dont think he would be ready to deal with saving his own life. He may never be. When confronted with the need to make a fast, accurate decision, he goes "tharn" (anyone remember "Watership Down"?)
Simply put, he freezes like a deer in the headlights. Given this, I would never consent to any solo jumps.
I would have no problem hookin him up to a trusted TM though, but looks like this isnt allowed?


Thoughts?


Chris

[CrazyIvan 0]

I believe is the other way around, you can allow an under 18 to do a tandem (if the parents are PRESENT the day of the jump) signing the proper waivers and documentation.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Fast 0]

This is right out of the SIM

D. Age requirements

Back to Section 2-1 Contents


1. For jumps with a single-harness, dual parachute system, skydivers are to be at least, either:


a. 18 years of age [FB]

b. 16 years of age with notarized parental or guardian consent [NW]

2. For jumps with a tandem parachute system, skydivers are to be at least the age of legal majority. [FB]

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[schattenjaeger 0]

Tandem harnesses aren't USPA certified or some such thing like that...it's in the SIM somewhere

[quade 4]

The age requirements have more to do with civil liability (people suing people) than laws or regulations.

In theory, at a non-group member DZ, you could toss your 5-year-old out for a solo (at night I might add). As far as any FAA regulation is concerned, there is no requirement. So, if you have your own, airplane and rigs, go for it!

The USPA, on the other hand, has SIM Section 2-1 D, which has a non-waiverable lower limit for 16 for solo skydives and a waiverable 18 for tandems. (I seriously doubt there has ever been a waiver granted in this section, but I could be wrong).

As for "deer in the head lights". I think parents are more concerned about early injuries and death than they used to be.

When did this happen?

I remember as a kid that the age to solo in a glider was (and still is) 14.

Have kids just gotten less able to cope with stuff or have parents just gotten overly protective?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Quote

Tandem harnesses aren't USPA certified or some such thing like that...it's in the SIM somewhere

Your belief is faulty.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[schattenjaeger 0]

It's not the harness, it's something about the whole tandem thing that the USPA something something. It was somewhere in the SIM, I remember!

[quade 4]

Quote

It was somewhere in the SIM, I remember!

You remember incorrectly.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Vertifly 0]

Just a suggestion:

Take a drive up to Canada. Do a few tandems with him, and perhaps AFF level 1. Come back down and go through the rest of AFF or start AFP.

[schattenjaeger 0]

Upon closer examination (i.e. ctrl + fing for "tandem")I've determined that my ability to read and comprehend has been compromised. Solution: Skydive more

[billvon 3,107]

>Tandem harnesses aren't USPA certified or some such thing like
>that...it's in the SIM somewhere

USPA doesn't certify harnesses, the FAA does. Once upon a time tandems were operated under an experimental exemption and so many of the 'normal' FAA skydiving regulations (including TSO requirements) were either different or did not apply. They are now off exemption, and are considered normal jumps under FAA rules. (Well, they're still considered tandem jumps but . . . you get the idea.)

[nightjumps 1]

You are not misreading. Its 18 to do a tandem and 16 for a first jump skydive.

Having said that, I will not jump anyone under 16; parental consent or not. In most states, one cannot enter into a contract until the age of majority. And, in a lot of states, parents cannot sign a waiver which gives up "certain legal rights" for the child.

There has been more than one time that "a" parent and a step-parent has brought a child to make a skydive and are willing to sign the waiver. Then we get into do both have the right to sign away the child's right on a waiver? if not, are both biological parents willing, etc.

Personally, I don't need; the heartache, the lawsuit, the need to interpret divorce decrees, or in the case of the 16 year old who looks 14 going to the hospital with a broken ankle, spouting off how they broke it in a skydive to sound cool and some overly diligent Doctor or nurse notifying the state Child Welfare office to crawl up me butt.

We've created a much too litigous society in dealing with adults, much less those under 18. Nope. 18 or older with valid ID for me.

Maybe someday, someone (or more specifically a body of people) will decide that legislating freedom is more important than legislating personal security.

[Blahr 0]

Quote

As for "deer in the head lights". I think parents are more concerned about early injuries and death than they used to be.

When did this happen?

Well, for me its more about the "type" of person they are rather than their age. My own son is 11 and I'd feel more comfortable letting him do a solo jump than my 15 year old step-son. (not that I'm letting either of them do one)
I wouldnt say that either one of them is brighter than the other, but my "natural" son, when presented with the need to make a fast high pressure decision, is far more likely to react quickly and correctly than my older step-son.
The sudden or unexpected situation throws my step-son for a loop.
In my opinion this is not a good quality for a skydiver regardless of age.

[livendive 8]

Quote

The USPA, on the other hand, has SIM Section 2-1 D, which has a non-waiverable lower limit for 16 for solo skydives and a waiverable 18 for tandems. (I seriously doubt there has ever been a waiver granted in this section, but I could be wrong).

Immediately following the addition of the BSR that stated tandem students must have reached the age of majority, blanket waivers were granted for those states in which the age of majority is older than 18. It doesn't really make a lot of sense, but then I don't think that sense was the primary criteria upon which the decision was based.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[quade 4]

Quote

. . . for those states in which the age of majority is older than 18.

Emphasis mine.

Am I reading that right?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mjosparky 4]

I believe the age requirement on tandems might be a manufacture requirement.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[masher 1]

In Oz it's 16 for solo and 14 for tandem. Those are minimum ages and both require parental/guardian consent.

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

. . . for those states in which the age of majority is older than 18.

Emphasis mine.

Am I reading that right?

Yeah, you got it right. The manufacturers really wanted USPA to limit their liability by putting in a BSR that wouldn't allow tandems by anyone who couldn't legally waive their right to sue. But then it turned out there are a couple states (Alabama and Mississippi) in which the age of majority is older than 18, so blanket waivers were granted for 18 year olds to do tandems in those states.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[riggerrob 643]

Minimum age limits are mostly set by local laws. USPA, CSPA, FAA have little say in the matter.

The original poster is quite right in stating that his two sons have vastly different abilities to handle stressful situations.
For example, many years ago - in a country far far away - I did tandem jumps with two 13 year old girls. The first girl was big for her age and athletic. She jumped the same afternoon as her mom and uncle. She did well on the skydive and we both enjoyed the jump.
The second 13-year-old girl was the exact opposite. She was short and skinny.
Her fat, obnoxious, drunken, ex-paratrooper father forced her into jumping.
I had to crank her harness all the way to the stops. She was terrified for the entire skydive.
She took a death grip on my left hand at 6,000 feet.
Remember that we made this jump long before Cypres or Vector 2 were invented.
The only reason we survived the skydive was my superior strength.
That was the last time I ever jumped with an under-age tandem student.
Lesson learned.

[sssbc99 0]

Quote

The only reason we survived the skydive was my superior strength.

Up Up and away...

[livendive 8]

Quote

Minimum age limits are mostly set by local laws. USPA, CSPA, FAA have little say in the matter.

As far as I know, the only minimum age limit for skydiving in the US is in Nevada, where USPA's BSRs have been referenced as law. Local laws DO dictate when one can legally sign a waiver of liability, but that is not the same thing as an age limit for skydiving.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mccurley 1]

Bring them down to New Zealand, if they are big enough not fall out of the harness they can tandem jump no age limit.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[Tonto 1]

Quote

Bring them down to New Zealand, if they are big enough not fall out of the harness they can tandem jump no age limit.

Same in SA.

t

It's the year of the Pig.