What do you think? Question about the USPA

[Fast 0]

I may be a new skydiver, but one thing that I hear a lot of is bitching that the uspa can't really do anything. That they have no real power, and people have to be on the honor system.

Then someone brings up giving the uspa some kick, power, whatever... and people all say they don't want that either. How can you have it both ways?

My question is who would support the USPA being given actual power over skydiving in the US.


Things that should not factor into your decison are the ones that include fiscal reasoning. Lets asume for a few minutes that people could figure out how to pay for things, becaue well... This poll is not about whether the uspa can afford to be an actual regulating agency.

So, if we say that the uspa could financially work, as an agency with power over all skydiving in the us, would you support it.

I would love to hear arguments on this because people seem to be all for both ways, and we all know you can't have your cake and eat it too.



/rant off


(Edit for title)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[narcimund 0]

If you have two people, one of whom says "A" and the other says "B", it's tempting, but misguided, to interpret that as a contradictory group.

In other words, have you found any single person who argues both sides? Or are you conflating individuals?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

That they have no real power

Its not our fault not giving them power, its their fault for not using the power they have.

The biggest problem is the enforcement of the BSRs. If the USPA actually used the GM program properly and did checks on DZs to check for BSR enforcement, etc, AND they had fines or other ramifications (like no student activity at the DZ for 30 days or something), THEN, they would be able to weld serious power. DZs would get on the ball and actually enforce BSRs. Instead of breaking the rules like I've seen done at some DZs.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Fast 0]

Quote

Quote

That they have no real power

Its not our fault not giving them power, its their fault for not using the power they have.

The biggest problem is the enforcement of the BSRs. If the USPA actually used the GM program properly and did checks on DZs to check for BSR enforcement, etc, AND they had fines or other ramifications (like no student activity at the DZ for 30 days or something), THEN, they would be able to weld serious power. DZs would get on the ball and actually enforce BSRs. Instead of breaking the rules like I've seen done at some DZs.

Yes, but the truth of the fact is that then a DZ just drops the GM program, they don't HAVE to be a uspa member, then all the GMs that don't want to follow just drop the uspa, and most people don't know a diff.

But if say, the BSRs became laws, that had to be followed like FARs? Then the uspa would have real power, not just percieved power?

Hmm

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[AggieDave 6]

Well, if the USPA lost membership from enforcing the BSRs, then skydiving wouldn't be around much longer. The FAA would eventually step in to regulate the sport, and I doubt that folks would like the outcome. It would kill our sport.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Gawain 0]

With the prospect of 3rd party liability insurance going away next year, my support may change.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[bendywendy 0]

A lot of people don't see what the USPA does, nor do they ever hear about it.

The USPA worked to get DZ's open quickly after 9/11 especially those DZ's in the airspace that was shut down indefinately like CrossKeys because it was in Philly/DC airspace.

The USPA has worked very hard for us at Sebastian with ongoing troubles with the town, the FAA and with problems we've had with offsite events we do and local governments. They do a lot of behind the scenes stuff that you never, ever hear about. They help keep our dropzones open and if you don't think that is a good enough benefit, I don't know what is.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

The USPA worked to get DZ's open quickly after 9/11

Nope. That was mainly a side effect of the AOPA getting GA back in the air.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bendywendy 0]

Sorry, I was working at CrossKeys if you don't think they were helping fight to get the dz open - you are mistaken.

[AggieDave 6]

Sure, that one DZ, I was talking about the industry as a whole and the nation as a whole.

For instance, that was a boogie weekend here, the 2nd AOT boogie. The USPA could have given a shit, but the AOPA was lobbying the entire time for GA to get back in the air, thus it happened.

All in all, the USPA is a small organization with very little lobbying power. The AOPA, though, is a large organization with the money and political swing needed to get things done.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[quade 4]

USPA can only be given so much power because it is not a government regulatory agency, nor can it be since the FAA has that authority, but rather the USPA is a governing body of a self-regulating sport to which no one is actually required to belong. That said, it is also a lobbying group that works on behalf of -all- jumpers in the U.S. whether they belong to it or not.

The USPA does have a few problems, but overall it's a pretty good system and value for the money.

The USPA keeps the FAA happy and out of our hair. Likewise they have done some pretty damn good work of late with the Transportation Security Administration which is particularly difficult since they really have no reason to trust us at all.

Sit back, relax and do everything you can to learn about how this all meshes together before rushing out to change it. Evolution is inevitable, but change for change's sake alone is stupid. The USPA exists for a reason and does things the way it does based on years of experience in things that very few people understand.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pilotdave 0]

Not sure I understand why you'd want every BSR being enforced at every DZ. Do you want to lose your membership every time you come within 2000 feet of a cloud? I mean that's not just a BSR, thats an FAR. (I don't have the SIM open but I assume it's a BSR not to violate any FARs).

I realize you're talking about gross violations by dropzones, but where would you draw the line? A BSR violation is a BSR violation.

I'm really surprised so many people would be for the USPA becoming a regulatory authority. We've got a really great deal as it is. The FAA is in charge, as they should be, but they're not watching over us all the time because we've got the USPA doing that job. It's like in school. The principal is in charge, but he doesn't sit there watching you. You've got the teacher in between. Most "violations" can be handled locally, without getting the principal involved. Do something REALLY bad though and you get sent to the principal's office. Why would anyone want the principal teaching their class?

Dave

[skybytch 273]

Claims like that really should be backed up with some facts, Dave.

Got any proof at all of your claim? Or are you just repeating what someone else said - and if so, where's their proof? Were you in Washington DC or at USPA or AOPA headquarters during that time? If not, then how do you know what was or wasn't done?

[Fast 0]

Quote

A lot of people don't see what the USPA does, nor do they ever hear about it.

The USPA worked to get DZ's open quickly after 9/11 especially those DZ's in the airspace that was shut down indefinately like CrossKeys because it was in Philly/DC airspace.

The USPA has worked very hard for us at Sebastian with ongoing troubles with the town, the FAA and with problems we've had with offsite events we do and local governments. They do a lot of behind the scenes stuff that you never, ever hear about. They help keep our dropzones open and if you don't think that is a good enough benefit, I don't know what is.

Let me start by saying that I don't think the USPA does nothing for us. In fact, I do understand they they are a lobbying power for skydivers, be it a large one or a small one they are a central voice to the government. I am in no way questioning that aspect of what they are doing.

I undedrstand that they provide quite a few benifits to us, including the aboved mentioned lobbying power, 3rd party liability insurance, a general set of saftey guildlines, an industry/sport magazine, some form of elective saftey regulation.

I guess the general skydiving population is happy with out regulation? I mean, it sure makes it hard to complain when people do unsafe stuff if there is no regulations though.

Do I want the FAA crawling down our backs, hmm, not really. Do I think there should be some form of imposed saftey regulation, that you have to follow, I don't know... My point in this was to see what people think, because I read a lot about people being mad when there are injurys or deaths that may have been prevented by some regulation, but then when everything is going well people say its not needed.

I guess, well I don't know what I guess....

*sigh*

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[livendive 8]

Anyone who pays attention to the mistakes USPA makes and the good ol' boy network that drives most of their activities should be able to easily recognize that they are nowhere near competent enough to be given "real" clout. That's not saying I don't support USPA, because I do, but they are not nearly good enough to be given anything other than an advisory role. There are plenty of negatives and I can't think of one positive that would result from such a transfer of authority.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Fast 0]

More people can probally see this here... wont get buried as fast!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[bendywendy 0]

That wasn't one DZ - there were multiple DZ's - two of which I personally worked at. If you ask they will help you.

I don't know about your situation but I find that it is all about how you present things. Don't go in yelling and demanding. Have your case ready and ask for what you need.