7 cell flaring

[billvon 3,108]

One difference between a Tri and many other canopies is that it has a narrow "power band," sort of like an older Sabre 1. It means you have to bring down the toggles and hold them there to plane you out, then add a little more to end the flare. Once you get to the bottom of the flare stroke there's not a lot of flare left.

The #1 issue is getting your vertical speed to zero as your feet are just above the ground. The canopy can always do that, but when there's no wind things _look_ different and you may fly your canopy differently. Since we use relative speed as one way to judge distance visually, many people flare higher when there is little wind. You get to zero vertical speed at, say, five feet, then you bring the toggles all the way down, the canopy "stalls" (it doesn't really stall, but it does start losing lift rapidly as you run out of airspeed) and it drops you the last five feet, at which point you're still moving forward. Result - a decent amount of vertical _and_ horizontal speed with no flare left in the canopy, and you end up on your butt.

To get over this, have someone video you. If you are planing out too high, move your flare height down. If you never quite plane out, make your flare a bit more aggressive (but don't "jab" the toggles whatever you do; makes things worse.)

[rhino 0]

Nothing is wrong with a small s-turn at 50 feet.. 20 degrees to the left 20 degrees to the right.. Light turn will build extra speed. If they don't know what an s-turn is they shouldn't have passed AFF..

Rhino

[Jimbo 0]

Telling an inexperienced jumper to turn low to build up extra speed for landing is irresponsible and likely to get someone hurt or killed. He's got the rest of his life to learn high performance landing, and he likely can find a better coach than you over the internet. Back off on this one Rob, you're out of line.

By the way, the "S" in S turn describes a pattern, not the degree of turn.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Not to mention that S-turns in the pattern are not considered a good idea anymore unless it's obstacle avoidance. They're inconsiderate to those coming in behind you.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Pubwoof 0]

Quote

Any advice on consistent flares for my Triathlon (a 7 cell canopy) ? Seems like on windy days I stand it up no sweat...on the occasional light air days....not so much....

It'd be helpful to know exactly what you mean by "not so much." Do you end up surfing on your ass? Do you overflare and end up stabbing? Somersaults? It still wouldn't be as good as having a good coach watch your landings, but some of us might have a few suggestions if we had a better idea of what you might be doing wrong.

As to some of the other suggestions, I recommend you disregard those regarding S-turns or any other turns until you consistently stand up your landings on straight-in approaches. Also, make sure it's ok to perform S-turns at your DZ before doing so. Any jumpers coming in behind you may not realize when and how much you'll be turning unless it's part of the accepted approach pattern. S-turns on final are actually prohibited where I jump, so ask before you do something like that.

I'm only now getting to the point that I'm standing up almost all of my landings. What helped me (Spectre 150 with a 1.26 to 1 wingloading) most was doing a quick pop of the toggles (about 25% of the full stroke) to level out, followed by a gradual increase in the stroke until reaching full flare. This usually results in a pretty decent surf on a straight in approach in lighter winds. In higher winds, I get the same basic result, but with less distance on the surf. Not sure if this is the answer that'll work for you, but it might be worth trying.

The glass isn't always half-full OR half-empty. Sometimes, the glass is just too damn big.

[firediver 0]

Jumping on the coastline pretty much guarantees that in the mornings there's light winds, than after 1 pm they come in off the water and often kick up pretty hard. The last five low/no wind landings went better. I did however, end up PLF'ing one yesterday in high winds for the exact reason mentioned in this thread, reaching out with the low side hand as the canopy slid off a bit...it was noticed right away and is now stored in my skull under a file called "impo'tent shit".

Thanks for the advice all, keep it coming, as I still have lots of room in that file!!

Skydiving isn't scary;...but clowns...CLOWNS are scary!

[firediver 0]

Those "not so much" landings were ass-surfing events. Potentially these were partly caused by my being used to the 9 cell I learned on and and waiting for that pop-up at the end of the flare, which never came of course. The canopy is loaded at about 1.08/1. I also won't yet be playing with s-turning on final, I'd rather keep the thing squared up, especially since I'm still trying to get the sink rate burned into my brain so I can get even better at accuracy.

Skydiving isn't scary;...but clowns...CLOWNS are scary!

[billvon 3,108]

>Nothing is wrong with a small s-turn at 50 feet.. 20 degrees to the
> left 20 degrees to the right.. Light turn will build extra speed. If they
> don't know what an s-turn is they shouldn't have passed AFF..

S-turns are taught in AFF as a way to avoid landing long; they are NEVER used to increase speed. "No turns below 200 feet" is a rule we use for new AFF students.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

S-turns are taught in AFF as a way to avoid landing long;

We teach students to use them ONLY if there is an obstacle (i.e avoidance). They are discouraged for long approaches (if landing area permits) as they are inconsiderate to those behind you. Instead we strongly encourage looking at the landing pattern and setup and making the corrections there.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[rhino 0]

Quote

"No turns below 200 feet" is a rule we use for new AFF students.

K.. I didn't question that rule.. I simply stated they should know now to do an s-turn.

If the individual in question did a hop-n-pop from altitude and was last down he wouldn't have to worry about canopy traffic..

Rhino

[rhino 0]

Quote

"No turns below 200 feet" is a rule we use for new AFF students.

K.. I didn't question that rule.. I simply stated they should know now to do an s-turn.

If the individual in question did a hop-n-pop from altitude and was last down he wouldn't have to worry about canopy traffic..

Rhino

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Hmmmm. That makes sense. I need to sit on that one and digest it for a minute. I guess I am not getting the concept of what is ground speed vs. what is airspeed. Can someone explain what my dytter means when it says true airspeed, whatever else kinds of airspeed there are???

Is it kind of like when you are flying an airplane and your GPS tells you you are traveling this direction at 100 knots but your ground speed actually fluctuates with the strength of a tailwind (faster) or a headwind (slower)? So your speed of the aircraft doesn't change or stays the same but your ground speed is affected as far as how fast you are "actually" moving across the ground i.e., 100 knots?

If you haven't been able to already tell, I am just a bit confused.

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[billvon 3,108]

> whatever else kinds of airspeed there are???

True airspeed - the speed you are moving relative to the air

Indicated airspeed - the speed your airspeed indicator indicates. Since it's based on differences in pressure, it reads slower as you go higher, so 100kts IAS is faster the higher you go. This is good, because wings care about pressures, not absolute speed, so if you stall at 60 KIAS at sea level you'll still stall at 60 KIAS at a higher altitude - although your true forward speed through the air will be faster.

Groundspeed - the speed you are moving relative to the ground.

There is also calibration airspeed (CAS) which is similar to IAS but for an "ideal" altimeter, and equivalent airspeed (EAS) which is really only important to people flying very fast (i.e. over 200kts or so.)