somethinelse 0 #1 October 29, 2003 WHAT "all" are considered hard/bad landings? I'm not thru AFF yet and HAVEN'T STOOD UP A LANDING yet! I haven't really gotten thorough feed back about canopy control OR my landings... Thinking back about it, I can tell that there was a lot that WASN'T SAID to me that should have been explained and not just lectured to me that I could've gotten hurt... When I really didn't understand what I did that was "wrong" before the fact - that COULD HAVE been better explained SO that Ican possibly have better canopy control and safer/better landings. SO what do you think? Can you help me out here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazyfrog 0 #2 October 29, 2003 for me : hard : when I hurt myself bad : when anything but the feet touch the ground to improve, the best is to ask your instructor---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #3 October 29, 2003 QuoteSO what do you think? Can you help me out here? No. ...You either have to get that (good, qualified FEEDBACK ---we can't SEE you!) from your DZ/instructors, or if for some reason you can't (you're saying apparently they're not effectively instructing you?) find ANOTHER DZ/instructors who CAN/will!! Seriously. -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites charleslittle 0 #4 October 29, 2003 well, I'm a newbie...but both logic and experienced jumpers have explained to me that many injuries happen when landing. I think it sucks that your instructors have not impressed this point upon you. FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL HELP YOU WITH YOUR LANDINGS BEFORE YOU GET HURT! I love this sport and I love flying the canopy and standing up those landings on target! i'd hate to get hurt. Find a reliable instructor and get the training you deserve! rock on!"Life is a party...dance your way through it!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #5 October 29, 2003 Try not to beat yourself up too much about not being able to stand up your landings. You've likely only got a handful of jumps under your belt and learning to land takes repetition (I hardly stood up any of my early landings on student canopies). Now if you're on the edge of hurting yourself with your landings, then please seek immediate help. Otherwise just remember that the canopies students often use are old F-111 canopies with little to no flare left in them and perform quite differently than the canopies most fun jumpers use. Finally, I think if you want to learn more than just the bare minimum that the instructors will teach you about canopy flight. Then by all means talk to the instructors about your concerns. Once off of AFF talk to coaches and experienced canopy pilots and seek formal canopy control instruction. It's amazing how many skydivers out there will spend $$$ on freefall coaching and tunnel time and little on formal canopy training, yet it is the canopy control aspects of the sport which allow us to jump time and time again. Good luck and keep us posted ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ripper0289 0 #6 October 29, 2003 I have only jumped 6 times, but on my last jump I hit some turbulence for the first time, I now realize how important the PLF is, so now I'd rather prepare for a hard landing, if it turns out well, nice bonus, if not, at least I'm not gonna make an avoidable mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,588 #7 October 29, 2003 A hard landing is one you walk away from that kind of hurt. A bad one is one you don't walk away from, or that you have to go to the doctor/stand down from. Standing up your landings is overrated. Really. Learn to roll on landings as the default, and you're much less likely ever to get hurt. Make standing up your goal when everything goes right, rather than the default you have to "fail" when something goes wrong. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brian425 0 #8 October 30, 2003 Lila, Talk with your instructors. It is their responsibility to teach you this skill. Where I am in school, we are guided in on radios. As we get more jumps, we get less radio instruction. After every jump, I talk with the radio person. We review my landings improvements needed and compliments on good work. I also stay to watch other people land. You can learn alot watching other people. Do not wait. Start working on landings now. In my short time, I have not seen anyone hurt on any type of malfunction; but, I have seen 3 people hurt from bad landings. Be safe and have fun. Brian The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dagny 0 #9 October 30, 2003 Quote Make standing up your goal when everything goes right, rather than the default you have to "fail" when something goes wrong. I think this is a great statement! I messed up my knee when I insisted on attempting to stand a landing during AFF after a very poor (read: miserable) landing approach. It hurt and the jury is still out on whether or not I'll need surgery to repair the mistake I made, but I learned a really important lesson about making a PLF when it's necessary. And, given the nature of most of my landings (one stand-up out of 22 jumps), I can say that I'm getting a lot better at PLFing. Perfect that first and then worry about standing up...unless everything went well and you can stand it up...if that's the case, then go for it. Learning to skydive is kind of like learning to walk as a toddler...you're gonna have to fall to learn how to stand. Just do it right so can get up, dust yourself off, and manifest for the next load! Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Liemberg 0 #10 October 30, 2003 OK here goes: Internet Instruction: "Landings 101" 1. Flare at the right moment. Determining the right moment becomes easier once you have made more landings; flaring at the wrong moment should be survivable and the fact that it hurts a bit helps you to focus even better, next time around. 2. Wing Level & equal pressure on both toggles 3. Rolling when not necessary ruins your pink jumpsuit, Not rolling when necessary ruins your ankles. Choose between washing clothes and orthopedic surgery. Compared to walking with crutches for 2 months, standing up your landing is often overrated IMHO - it is a bonus for a well executed flare, but nothing is guaranteed - ever! 4. Have an unobstructed 'lane' to practice. 50 meters is OK - 500 meters is better. One or two meters is usually broad enough. 5. Your forward speed can be influenced by the wind. That is why you preffer your landing lane to face into the wind if there is any significant wind. 6. Practice makes perfection 7. There is no such thing as "Free" fall on this planet; invariably the planet gets in the way; when it does, DO NOT ACCELERATE - the planet has a bad reputation for not giving way... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #11 November 2, 2003 We used to refer to them as a "crash and burn" landings. The worst Ive had (out of many) was setting up for a landing with a 35mm movie camera on my helmet, and I was using my Delta II parawing. I was looking at the ground and felt a slight tug on the harness, and I looked up to see my canopy had turned 90 degrees from the way I was facing. It was a very windy day, and I said to myself as I swung to catch up with the canopy :" Self,....This is going to smart" I figured out from the wind speed and the forward speed of the canopy that I hit about 60 MPH. My lights went out immediately. I came too and saw the plane flying overhead, and thought maybe the pilot would see me. He didnt! I passed out again, and when I came too a second time, I saw two jumpers coming towards me. They looked like they thought I was dead. I passed out again as they got me to my feet, and although I could hear them talking and could answer them, I had no idea where I was or what I was doing there. They told me I was filming for a movie, and walked me out to a pickup truck. As I was walking, I stepped on a very large nail in a board, and it passed through my jump boot and right alongside my ankle without breaking the skin. I knew I had stepped on a nail, but couldnt see anything but a starry blackness. They took me back to the airport and stuck me in an ambulance, and then drove me to the hospital. I had a concussion, and was bruised black, blue, yellow and purple from the center of my chest to the center of my back around the right side. After a night in and out of consiousness, I was okay the next morning....at least as far as I was concerned. A nurse was rubbing my back, and asked me if I could straighten my right leg....and I did. She then asked me if I could straighten my left leg....and I did. I told her to keep rubbing my back and it would straighten the one in the middle. She left the room with a scarlet colored face. I signed myself out of the hospital 2 hours later. I should have stayed there....the company had insured me for 1 million dollars....I could have used some of that. That is a "hard landing"....1 of many. Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rowansky 0 #12 November 7, 2003 all I can say to that is..... OUCH !! 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lazyfrog 0 #2 October 29, 2003 for me : hard : when I hurt myself bad : when anything but the feet touch the ground to improve, the best is to ask your instructor---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #3 October 29, 2003 QuoteSO what do you think? Can you help me out here? No. ...You either have to get that (good, qualified FEEDBACK ---we can't SEE you!) from your DZ/instructors, or if for some reason you can't (you're saying apparently they're not effectively instructing you?) find ANOTHER DZ/instructors who CAN/will!! Seriously. -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charleslittle 0 #4 October 29, 2003 well, I'm a newbie...but both logic and experienced jumpers have explained to me that many injuries happen when landing. I think it sucks that your instructors have not impressed this point upon you. FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL HELP YOU WITH YOUR LANDINGS BEFORE YOU GET HURT! I love this sport and I love flying the canopy and standing up those landings on target! i'd hate to get hurt. Find a reliable instructor and get the training you deserve! rock on!"Life is a party...dance your way through it!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #5 October 29, 2003 Try not to beat yourself up too much about not being able to stand up your landings. You've likely only got a handful of jumps under your belt and learning to land takes repetition (I hardly stood up any of my early landings on student canopies). Now if you're on the edge of hurting yourself with your landings, then please seek immediate help. Otherwise just remember that the canopies students often use are old F-111 canopies with little to no flare left in them and perform quite differently than the canopies most fun jumpers use. Finally, I think if you want to learn more than just the bare minimum that the instructors will teach you about canopy flight. Then by all means talk to the instructors about your concerns. Once off of AFF talk to coaches and experienced canopy pilots and seek formal canopy control instruction. It's amazing how many skydivers out there will spend $$$ on freefall coaching and tunnel time and little on formal canopy training, yet it is the canopy control aspects of the sport which allow us to jump time and time again. Good luck and keep us posted ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ripper0289 0 #6 October 29, 2003 I have only jumped 6 times, but on my last jump I hit some turbulence for the first time, I now realize how important the PLF is, so now I'd rather prepare for a hard landing, if it turns out well, nice bonus, if not, at least I'm not gonna make an avoidable mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #7 October 29, 2003 A hard landing is one you walk away from that kind of hurt. A bad one is one you don't walk away from, or that you have to go to the doctor/stand down from. Standing up your landings is overrated. Really. Learn to roll on landings as the default, and you're much less likely ever to get hurt. Make standing up your goal when everything goes right, rather than the default you have to "fail" when something goes wrong. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian425 0 #8 October 30, 2003 Lila, Talk with your instructors. It is their responsibility to teach you this skill. Where I am in school, we are guided in on radios. As we get more jumps, we get less radio instruction. After every jump, I talk with the radio person. We review my landings improvements needed and compliments on good work. I also stay to watch other people land. You can learn alot watching other people. Do not wait. Start working on landings now. In my short time, I have not seen anyone hurt on any type of malfunction; but, I have seen 3 people hurt from bad landings. Be safe and have fun. Brian The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #9 October 30, 2003 Quote Make standing up your goal when everything goes right, rather than the default you have to "fail" when something goes wrong. I think this is a great statement! I messed up my knee when I insisted on attempting to stand a landing during AFF after a very poor (read: miserable) landing approach. It hurt and the jury is still out on whether or not I'll need surgery to repair the mistake I made, but I learned a really important lesson about making a PLF when it's necessary. And, given the nature of most of my landings (one stand-up out of 22 jumps), I can say that I'm getting a lot better at PLFing. Perfect that first and then worry about standing up...unless everything went well and you can stand it up...if that's the case, then go for it. Learning to skydive is kind of like learning to walk as a toddler...you're gonna have to fall to learn how to stand. Just do it right so can get up, dust yourself off, and manifest for the next load! Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #10 October 30, 2003 OK here goes: Internet Instruction: "Landings 101" 1. Flare at the right moment. Determining the right moment becomes easier once you have made more landings; flaring at the wrong moment should be survivable and the fact that it hurts a bit helps you to focus even better, next time around. 2. Wing Level & equal pressure on both toggles 3. Rolling when not necessary ruins your pink jumpsuit, Not rolling when necessary ruins your ankles. Choose between washing clothes and orthopedic surgery. Compared to walking with crutches for 2 months, standing up your landing is often overrated IMHO - it is a bonus for a well executed flare, but nothing is guaranteed - ever! 4. Have an unobstructed 'lane' to practice. 50 meters is OK - 500 meters is better. One or two meters is usually broad enough. 5. Your forward speed can be influenced by the wind. That is why you preffer your landing lane to face into the wind if there is any significant wind. 6. Practice makes perfection 7. There is no such thing as "Free" fall on this planet; invariably the planet gets in the way; when it does, DO NOT ACCELERATE - the planet has a bad reputation for not giving way... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #11 November 2, 2003 We used to refer to them as a "crash and burn" landings. The worst Ive had (out of many) was setting up for a landing with a 35mm movie camera on my helmet, and I was using my Delta II parawing. I was looking at the ground and felt a slight tug on the harness, and I looked up to see my canopy had turned 90 degrees from the way I was facing. It was a very windy day, and I said to myself as I swung to catch up with the canopy :" Self,....This is going to smart" I figured out from the wind speed and the forward speed of the canopy that I hit about 60 MPH. My lights went out immediately. I came too and saw the plane flying overhead, and thought maybe the pilot would see me. He didnt! I passed out again, and when I came too a second time, I saw two jumpers coming towards me. They looked like they thought I was dead. I passed out again as they got me to my feet, and although I could hear them talking and could answer them, I had no idea where I was or what I was doing there. They told me I was filming for a movie, and walked me out to a pickup truck. As I was walking, I stepped on a very large nail in a board, and it passed through my jump boot and right alongside my ankle without breaking the skin. I knew I had stepped on a nail, but couldnt see anything but a starry blackness. They took me back to the airport and stuck me in an ambulance, and then drove me to the hospital. I had a concussion, and was bruised black, blue, yellow and purple from the center of my chest to the center of my back around the right side. After a night in and out of consiousness, I was okay the next morning....at least as far as I was concerned. A nurse was rubbing my back, and asked me if I could straighten my right leg....and I did. She then asked me if I could straighten my left leg....and I did. I told her to keep rubbing my back and it would straighten the one in the middle. She left the room with a scarlet colored face. I signed myself out of the hospital 2 hours later. I should have stayed there....the company had insured me for 1 million dollars....I could have used some of that. That is a "hard landing"....1 of many. Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rowansky 0 #12 November 7, 2003 all I can say to that is..... OUCH !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
