diablopilot 2 #1 October 30, 2003 Onterio, CA: October 30th, 2003: DZ.commer katecooper decided to bring her rig as carry-on luggage as suggested by both the USPA and TSA today. After it was X-rayed a TSA agent/officer/inspector was called over to do a hand search. I've experienced this as normal when traveling with a rig. However after verifying the contents of her bag as a packed Javelin TJN the TSA inspector checked her packing data card and reserve seal. When asked what he was doing he replied he was a skydiver with around 200 jumps and a rigger as well who was checking to see if the rig was in date, and the seal was intact. When asked what he would have done if it had been out of date or the seal broken, he replied he would have opened and inspected her reserve to ensure she had not slipped something inside! WTF!!! Sounds like a case of someone who is feeling a little too powerful in their position! I would have liked to ask him well what would have stopped me from packing something in the main container? And where in his duties and job description as an employee of the TSA does it say he should exercise his duties as a FAA rigger if he even is one! I guess we just need to be extra careful when traveling with gear. Check those seals.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #2 October 30, 2003 why if it was out of date? I don't understand. If someone was really wanting to try to smuggle something through a rig couldn't they pencil pack the reserve pretty easily? For that matter they could get a lead seal and do up a fake one quite easily. I dont follow? --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #3 October 30, 2003 QuoteSounds like a case of someone who is feeling a little too powerful in their position! Exactly ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 October 30, 2003 Quote When asked what he would have done if it had been out of date or the seal broken, he replied he would have opened and inspected her reserve to ensure she had not slipped something inside! WTF!!! Sounds like a case of someone who is feeling a little too powerful in their position! What makes you think they don't have the authority to open any rig at any time for any reason they may dream up? I have to side with the TSA inspector on this point. Does he have the right to do it outside of your presence -- no. Not according to the Letter of Agreement the USPA has with the TSA. Does he have the right to open it up in your presence -- absolutely. From the day the TSA was created until it is dismantled this will be the case. Your job, Kate's job, as a skydiver travelling with a rig is to make sure all your "i"s are dotted and "t"s are crossed. To not give "them" any reason to question what it is you're doing. http://www.uspa.org/news/current_news/carryons.htm Do we "like" this policy -- no. Not really. It's an invasion of privacy and against the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. However, the standard is not what we'd like or even what is legal, but rather simply the way things are. If we are to change things, we can't expect to force change at the underling and local level. This is ONLY a change that can happen by removing the people in office that put it there in the first place. I'm all for dismantling the TSA. It's a waste. However, as long as it exists, confronting TSA officers in airports to effect change is a waste of your spirit and energy. Then again, it could just be the NyQuil talking . . . I got a cold. P.S. -- How'd this yahoo manage to rack up 200 jumps and not recognise the name "Kate Cooper".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #5 October 30, 2003 QuoteP.S. -- How'd this yahoo manage to rack up 200 jumps and not recognise the name "Kate Cooper". ROFL! That was my question. Eh, maybe he's a freeflier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #6 October 30, 2003 I dont know if I can agree with your constitutional challenge Paul. I dont think the freedom to fly with out hassle was in the constitution. If you have a problem with flying...then you have to start flying GA...or drive it. flying is a privledge not a right. or at least that's my opinion...and your entitled to yours. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #7 October 30, 2003 I'd file a complaint w/ the FAA if the guy didn't have his certificate on him. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #8 October 30, 2003 QuoteI dont know if I can agree with your constitutional challenge Paul. I dont think the freedom to fly with out hassle was in the constitution. I think he's referring to unreasonable detainment, search &/or seizure. Not the "Freedom to fly without hassle". ...DOH coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #9 October 30, 2003 QuoteP.S. -- How'd this yahoo manage to rack up 200 jumps and not recognise the name "Kate Cooper". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ROFL! That was my question. Eh, maybe he's a freeflier The only reason i know her name is because of you bytch. I never heard of her til you talked about her. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 October 30, 2003 Oh, I have no problem flying -- at all. I just travelled to and from the Nationals with no problems whatsoever largely, I think, because I gave "them" no reason to question what I was doing. I followed the USPA and TSA LoA to the letter, even checked my two rigs, and nobody so much as blinked. The problem I have is our rights have been fundamentally changed for the worse since September 11. I can pretty much guarantee that the TSA's actions would have been strongly fought before the terrorist attacks and that the level of useless showmanship within the entire TSA, Patriot Act and other measures that have been imposed on the American public would have been severely criticized as being far, far too totalitarian. While this level of intrusivness into our private lives is repugnant to me, for me, as an individual, there is little I can do on a micro-scale. We -must- remove the current way of thinking from government and the only thing I can see on the horizon to do that is the 2004 election.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 334 #11 October 30, 2003 QuoteQuoteP.S. -- How'd this yahoo manage to rack up 200 jumps and not recognise the name "Kate Cooper". ROFL! That was my question. Eh, maybe he's a freeflier. Yeah, but doesn't Kate have a womens VRW record? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #12 October 30, 2003 QuoteWhat makes you think they don't have the authority to open any rig at any time for any reason they may dream up? I have to side with the TSA inspector on this point. I agree with your point but the way this was related to me, the TSA inspector was not acting withing his guidelines, but outside of them posing as an FAA rigger, and skydiver. If the TSA had suspicions that there was anything unsafe about the rig it should be inspected regardles of it being in date or not. I would venture a guess that if this guys supervisors knew about this incident they'd not approve. QuoteP.S. -- How'd this yahoo manage to rack up 200 jumps and not recognise the name "Kate Cooper". Must be a freeflyer. j/k---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #13 October 30, 2003 >When asked what he would have done if it had been out of date or > the seal broken, he replied he would have opened and inspected > her reserve to ensure she had not slipped something inside! Look on the bright side. Had he done that, Kate could have demanded "OK, you're a rigger. Reclose it and sign it off." (Wouldn't have worked of course but would have at least escalated the issue to his supervisor.) But as other people have mentioned, they can open the reserve for any reason at all including that the TSA agent doesn't like the looks of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #14 October 30, 2003 QuoteYeah, but doesn't Kate have a womens VRW record? IIRC, not anymore. I believe a 5 way was built and ratified by the FAI a few months ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #15 October 30, 2003 QuoteI have to side with the TSA inspector on this point. Not to split hairs here but we know the issue isn't whether or not he can open it but that his logic is absolute garbage. Nobody doubts his authority, just his brain."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 October 30, 2003 Quote Nobody doubts his authority, just his brain. Thank you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #17 October 31, 2003 QuoteDo we "like" this policy -- no. Not really. It's an invasion of privacy and against the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Not really. The 4th Ammendment protects us against unreasonable searches, not all searches, by the government. The courts decide whether a search is reasonable not individuals or groups. Most of the federal judges were placed in their position by Clinton not the current elected officials. You should have a chance of fighting it now if you try. There is no reason to have security on airlines now anyway. The 4th Ammendment: QuoteThe right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #18 October 31, 2003 Quoteflying is a privledge not a right. Where the hell does it say that in the constitution?Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 October 31, 2003 Quote The courts decide whether a search is reasonable not individuals or groups. Most of the federal judges were placed in their position by Clinton not the current elected officials. You should have a chance of fighting it now if you try. As an individual? I doubt that would be successful. This is more of a test case for the ACLU. I guess the thing that pisses me off about the TSA is that the courts -didn't- get to decide squat on this. The Executive Branch simply created it out of nothing. Ironic since the current Administration had been going on and on about a smaller government for years. Quote There is no reason to have security on airlines now anyway. There will always be at least a minimal need for airline security, but doing things the way they are being done now is rediculous.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #20 October 31, 2003 Quotedoing things the way they are being done now is rediculous. What do you suggest? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jayruss 0 #21 October 31, 2003 QuoteQuoteP.S. -- How'd this yahoo manage to rack up 200 jumps and not recognise the name "Kate Cooper". ROFL! That was my question. Eh, maybe he's a freeflier. let's just be assured that his belly flying days are over. __________________________________________________ "Beware how you take away hope from another human being." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #22 October 31, 2003 Quotelet's just be assured that his belly flying days are over. It's more like his big way career has ended before it ever started.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #23 October 31, 2003 ugh could we please not turn this into a politics thing? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 October 31, 2003 QuoteWe -must- remove the current way of thinking from government and the only thing I can see on the horizon to do that is the 2004 election. This is not a Republican issue - the Clinton Administration had just as little regard for civil liberities, particularly with regards to privacy and searches. I thought the cases of airline profiling controversies predated the 9/11 attacks, but I cannot recall any more. As for the Constitutional matters - your right to privacy does not outweigh the other 300 passengers right to fly safely. You can complain about silly TSA policies that merely look like improved safety, but you'll get nowhere claiming that searches are illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #25 October 31, 2003 Quote ugh could we please not turn this into a politics thing? Well, you're right, this is the wrong Forum for that, but it's almost impossible to talk about the issue -without- turning it into a political discussion. Anyway, I'm done for this issue in this thread.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
