I just wanted to unload something that’s bugging me.

[Staso 0]

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>If it's such a big deal to have a D-ring reserve handle then why not
>have a D-ring cutaway.

I know a few people who have gotten cloth-loop handles for their cutaway handles, basically a loop of steel cable covered with cloth. It gives you a better grip and still lets you feel a difference between the two handles. In the case of one jumper, she was worried about having enough grip strength to cut away in the event of a hard cutaway.

i have d-rings for reserve and cutaway. i wish i had them for this cutaway. now i can use one hand per handle procedure without worrying about my hand slipping.


stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[freeflybella 0]

  Quote

If it's such a big deal to have a D-ring reserve handle then why not have a D-ring cutaway.

Assuming you have something out, your main will be malfunctioning at an altitude where you have some time to either make a decision to chop, or to peel and pull.

If there are ANY issues in your cutaway procedure that put you at a lower than 'comfortable' reserve deployment altitude, a d-ring is easier to grab and yank - than to peel and pull.

I have a d-ring reserve and a pillow cutaway handle.

I had one mal where I wished I had a d-ring cutaway. I've had 3 where the pillow cutaway was no issue. For me, it's about those things most likely to occur.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[TheMonkey 0]

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You make it sound as if he didn't deploy his main OR reserve....which makes it sound like much more than a case of a soft reserve handle problem to me.

based upon this discussion, i think this thread is referring to this incident. in which case you are correct, nothing was deployed till the cypress saved his life....but that is all discussed over there....

labrys, if it happens again i am going to disagree with DJL, you do not kick the nutz, that's just not cricket! you do however tell him to go take a flying f*ck and that he should be more worried about his friend not pulling than about whether you jump with a pillow reserve

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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

[DJL 235]

Everyone can hit on Monkey's clicky to see the reasons I have soft pillows on one rig and want to have D rings on the other.

Lunch break is over, time to get back to work.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[TheMonkey 0]

  Quote

a d-ring is easier to grab and yank - than to peel and pull.

this peel and pull statement is used a lot and i believe it to somewhat misleading....peeling and pulling are not 2 seperate actions (at least in my experience), a simple twist of the wrist while pulling the handle accomplishes the task...i had a relatively high speed malfunction and had no problems whatsoever executing emergency procedures...

i said it in the incidents forum...if you are not comfortable jumping a soft pillow reserve handle, then don't jump one, it is that easy. it is another piece of gear that each and every skydiver must decide whether is it is right for him/her or not. rsl's are not for everyone, reserve pillows are not for everyone, high performance canopies are not for everyone, etc etc

opinion are like a$$holes, everyones got one (and they all stink)!

edit for spelling

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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

[freeflybella 0]

  Quote

this peel and pull statement is used a lot and i believe it to somewhat misleading

I believe that we are in agreement on the personal choice issue - but to say that peel and pull is misleading ...is misleading.

I have no doubt that, in your experience, a simple twist of the wrist whilst pulling is sufficient.

In my experience (having practically girlie-midget hands) it is/was not. Especially with brand new velcro, a definite peel and pull action was required.

Note to everyone reading: get your hands around your current set-up at least every repack period and find out for yourself what it feels like to pull your handles.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[TheMonkey 0]

  Quote

but to say that peel and pull is misleading ...is misleading.

exactly, if they don't know what you are talking about then they can't prove you wrong

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Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

[riddler 0]

  Quote

I know a few people who have gotten cloth-loop handles for their cutaway handles, basically a loop of steel cable covered with cloth.

I have one of these for each of my two rigs. Mine don't have steel cable, though - just the same plastic yellow cutaway cable.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[riggerrob 643]

Mine don't have steel cable, though - just the same plastic yellow cutaway cable.

[riggerrob 643]

Sounds like we are discussing two separate issues here.

The first issue is an obnoxious loud-mouth who should never have touched your gear without your permission.
Sounds like he was trying to shift the blame away from his buddy to a piece of gear.
His buddy pulled low and we are tired of listening to excuses. Period!

Secondly, soft reserve handles fell out of fashion about five years ago, because they are too easy to fold under. All modern cloth reserve handles have some form of stiffener, whether it is the steel tube in the Vector 3 (my favorite), the tiny steel tubing oval in the Javelin handle or the plastic stiffeners used by most other manufacturers.

On a personal note, I have pulled metal reserve handles 18 times and am still alive. Finally, I am too old and too grumpy to retrain.

[flyangel2 2]

I have the soft reserve handle and didn't have a problem finding it during an ugly spinning malfunction. It's been said already, to each their own.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[diablopilot 2]

  Quote

whether it is the steel tube in the Vector 3 (my favorite)

And mine, also used in Infinity, and Mirage, and soon to be in Vipers (I think.)

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Tilion 0]

  Quote

Sounds like he was trying to shift the blame away from his buddy to a piece of gear.

Which of course is a natural thing to do, he was probably a bit emotional at that time so he might be excused for that. It wouldn't hurt him to apologize later though, looking back on it he must see how rude it was, right?

I'm not getting into the whole soft/hard pillows/handles issue since I'm not even near enough experienced but I was also also taught that the reason of the difference between both (pull away and reserve) is a tactile one.

[jaaska 0]

In Finland we just had a skydiving conference where the final report on an incident that occurred last May was presented. This incident led to abandonment of ALL soft reserve handles in Finland - It has been illegal to skydive with one ever since the incident, now it was just made an official policy (not a temporary one).

After the presentation, a very well respected rigger examiner stated in very clear way, that he was very pleased on this decision. He gave very good arguments for this and personally I (like I think most of the other 200 persons attending this conference) were very well convinced.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=508246;search_string=incident%20finland;#508246

Link to the incident added.

[Tonto 1]

Sorry to hear about your story.

I wonder why the dude was not out preaching just before the incident.

I've used D rings, Soft loops (Tandem) and soft puffs for reserve handles. For me, its just a handle - like the one you use to open a door. They're all different, but we know how to work them.

The only preference I have is for birdman. I like the hard "pipe" handle on BOC (as in Tandem) and with the loop over my thumb, I like my D ring reserve handle.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[DJL 235]

  Quote

In Finland we just had a skydiving conference where the final report on an incident that occurred last May was presented. This incident led to abandonment of ALL soft reserve handles in Finland - It has been illegal to skydive with one ever since the incident, now it was just made an official policy (not a temporary one).

From the incident discussion you posted:

  Quote

She didn't have an AAD, I'm not sure about an RSL,but I doubt she had that either.

She had a prior reserve ride as well.

She appeared to be unconscious after the cutaway.

PikkuMari

Is there any substantiation to the claim that she was unconcious? In the report, they say that there was evidence that she attempted to pull the reserve but was unsuccessful. How did they know this?

Edit: The mod on my rig to have a pillow handle results in both sides of the pillow having a velcro connection. This could mean that it will take more force to remove it compared to the D-ring just separating the two sides. If anyone is worried about the pull-force on their rig then why not just eliminate some of that velcro. Banning soft handles seems like a pretty thoughtless solution. You can find out how much force it takes to remove the handle. On your next repack get with your rigger and add weight to a line connected to your handle until it does it's job.

Note to all: I'm not a rigger. I'm interested in hearing what riggers have to say about this. I'll post something in gear and rigging to ask about this.

http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=764555;#764555

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[FrogNog 1]

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  Quote

On your next repack get with your rigger and add weight to a line connected to your handle until it does it's job.

Fish scales, my man. (The kind that a human uses to weigh a fish, not the kind that a fish uses to cover its body.)

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[mraad 0]

I have the same question about using a silver D (low profile) versus a soft pad reserve handle. Currently, I have a regular size silver D and I am planning to replace it with a low profile silver D.

See the forum below, there were many interesting points made both for the low profile silver D and also for the soft pillow reserve handle. This forum may have more information to help you make a decision. Good luck!

See Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training: Go to page 3 and Subject: Low profile Silver D VS. Soft Pad Reserve Handle

or click:

www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=718261;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[skydiven4fun 0]

I totaly agree, It's a matter of choice, I also freefly but use a small D ring reserve handle. I have my own reasons for why I choose this set up and It's my own business as to why, But that's what's great about this sport is that we can make our own choice as to what we jump, Where we jump and who we jump with.

Still here after all these years

Clayton