gus 1 #1 December 10, 2003 I think PD have made a bit of a marketing error by teasing us too early with the Katana. I'm bored of waiting! Before the prevalance of the Internet (and sites like this) maybe you could get away with putting ads in magazines for a couple of months but dz.com lets us talk the bloody thing to death and still we don't know much about it. Just thinking out loud really. I ordered a Crossfire2 last week. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #2 December 10, 2003 QuoteI ordered a Crossfire2 last week. You wont be sorry. I am looking forward to trying a katana to see if it can hold a candle to my xfire2. Im not to worried about that. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 December 10, 2003 Yeah, worst case you jump a Katana and you like it, you sell your Xfire2 and order one. I understand, I was motivated when the ad first came out and during the first discussions here on DZ.com, but at this point I'm not very motivated anymore (after waiting these few months to test jump one). Supposidly their marketing worked, since people are trying to order one (without jumping one) every single day. PD is reciving e-mails, faxes and calls of quite a few ppl trying to order one every day.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #4 December 10, 2003 QuoteSupposidly their marketing worked, since people are trying to order one (without jumping one) every single day. PD is reciving e-mails, faxes and calls of quite a few ppl trying to order one every day. And some just flat out went and bought another canopy instead of waiting.... Not a good product release plan to have people wait so long that they just give up and buy something else."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #5 December 10, 2003 While I’m all for comprehensive testing of a canopy before it’s release, (lost half a tooth to a hard opening on a competitors design that had been released prior to proper testing) you have to wonder what good can come from keeping us in the dark about the Katana’s release date. With their website PD could post updates on their progress, even if they are unable to feed us an exact release date. A general idea of the progress they’re making on the project would be appreciated. I’m in the market for a new elliptical and would be willing to wait for a PD product, as their experience in the market is unquestionable. However, the Crossfire2 has been out and I have heard few complaints about its performance and reliability. PD has our attention, and my interest, but they must remember we are skydivers… We do have short attention spans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #6 December 10, 2003 QuotePD has our attention, and my interest, but they must remember we are skydivers… We do have short attention spans. Too true. In my (limited) experience PD seem normally to be pretty astute. They could have called the Sabre2 anything they liked but they kept the Sabre name and the instant recognition that comes with it. I wonder whether they were planning on releasing the Katana earlier but have hit a delay for some reason? Anyone remember how long they teased us with the Sabre2 before it was actually available? GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #7 December 10, 2003 QuoteI wonder whether they were planning on releasing the Katana earlier but have hit a delay for some reason? Gus I have been in contact with PD and tried to finagle a tentative release date out of them. The best response I could get was the Katana “will be available for the upcoming US skydiving season”. I’m sure their doing their best to release a safe and reliable canopy, I just wish they could give us a little more info on what to expect and where they stand in development. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 December 10, 2003 Quote We do have short attention spans. Good point, one time I... hey, brownies. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #9 December 10, 2003 In speaking to PD earlier this year they were testing each size of canopy to make sure that they all flew like each other. Each size is trimmed a little different, or cut a bit different or something. Canopies do not scale like some people think they do. Just since you have a design that works get in a 150 does'nt mean you can just increase the scale and make a 160 fly the same. Each size needs tested and verified that they are going to be the same across the entire product line. I heard most the smaller canopies were good to go and they were testing the 120-150's back after WFFC and this fall.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #10 December 10, 2003 QuoteCanopies do not scale like some people think they do. Just since you have a design that works get in a 150 does'nt mean you can just increase the scale and make a 160 fly the same. A canopy can most certainly be scaled. The entire Firebolt series of canopies from 75 through the tandem 396 and the Eiff Classic Accuracy canopies were designed as a scaled canopy. Every size made so far has worked equally well straight out of production. At present we can take any size custom canopy you want and have scaled CADD templates in production in an hour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #11 December 10, 2003 Yeah, its frustrating. PD reps were once telling me that they would be available at Rantoul this year, but that came and went and still haven't heard a thing. PD did the same thing with the Sabre2 a few years back, so I guess they think they know what they're doing. It is frustrating to be waiting for these things, there was a time where I was itching to jump one, but that has long passed. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #12 December 10, 2003 QuoteSupposidly their marketing worked Just my opinion, but that doesn't sound like good marketing to me. Teasing potential customers about something they can't have yet is one way to turn me off to the entire company.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OzoneJunkie 0 #13 December 10, 2003 Better to wait then to participate in the double-blind beta testing program... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #14 December 10, 2003 QuoteA canopy can most certainly be scaled I don't agree. I fly Radio controled Aircraft and I have learned first hand how you can't take a set of plans and scale them and expect the same type of performance. Took a Taylorcraft and built a scale model of it. It flew more like a stunt plane than a Taylorcraft. Most modelers will agree on this subject. It does not work well, the "copy" does not have the same flight characteristics."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 December 10, 2003 Are you able to scale the air molocules that the canopy uses also? Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 December 10, 2003 QuoteA canopy can most certainly be scaled. Sure it can. And what you will get is an exact copy in miniature, or an enlargement. What you will not get is the exact same flying characteristics. On smaller canopies (100's and less) where the change is often on the order of 5sq. ft' or less you may not notice a difference, but to scale a canopy fromm 300 sq ft to 80 sq ft AND retain the same flight characteristics at a given loading, you will need to "tweek" the design.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffharris 0 #17 December 10, 2003 Is the firebolt that canopy with a funny looking nose? Looks kinda like sharks teeth, real jaggedy? If so, when I saw the pics of that canopy it just looked kinda questionable, like maybe it was just for looks and didn't harbor any true aerodymanic value. Has anybody else seen it? e4: speeling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #18 December 10, 2003 I jumped a Firebolt 150ish in Montana. Very nice canopy. A friend jumped the 134 and he had serious problems with it. I get the feeling they have a good design but are still figuring out how to scale and manufacture it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #19 December 10, 2003 That would be a neat trick since Jump Shack hasn't made a Firebolt 134 and are 128 and 146 are the most popular canopies. Here was Eric's review http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=610790;search_string=firebolt;#610790 And in all fairness I will tell you the same thing as any other mfg., demo it and judge for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomasHughes 0 #20 December 10, 2003 I put about 100 jumps on an early revision of the Katana and it is well worth the wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #21 December 10, 2003 QuoteCanopies do not scale like some people think they do. I would definitely agree that canopies do not always scale well. I assisted the Parks College Parachute Research Group www.pcprg.com with various testing of scaled models of military canopies and we found radical changes in performance with changes in scale. Parachutes are very dynamic; I can see how PD may have run into some unexpected surprises at certain canopy sizes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supergeil 0 #22 December 11, 2003 So true!!! It's not going to be skydiving that kills me. It's because im bored to death of waiting for the..........oh what was the name of that deadly dull canopy? Supergeil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #23 December 11, 2003 Precision will make a canopy scaled to what ever size that you want and they f%#king R O C K ! I own 3 Xaos's and they all rock! 2 21 cells and a 27 cell, Xaos rocks!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #24 December 11, 2003 Precision will only make a xaos in any size you want. They used to offer their 7 cell in any size you want to, but have since removed that option it seems. Not in the nitron, though. Funny only the canopies that are "adapted" from the Icarus line could be built in any size. I have also never heard of anyone having any problems or adverse affects with a custom sized Icarus canopy. I believe <<<>>>> that their designs were made with scaling in mind. I believe the constant cell aspect ratio lends itself to this. But then again thats just me. God I love my xfire2 141. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #25 December 11, 2003 QuoteI think PD have made a bit of a marketing error by teasing us too early with the Katana. I'm bored of waiting! Same here. It's pretty frustrating when they advertise a canopy but won't give ANY idea when it may be released. I really wanted to demo one when I first saw the specs and heard some reviews from people that had jumped 'em....but now....since it's been such a long wait with no info on when it will be released....not so much. I'm looking at alternatives since PD won't even give us any clue as to when the canopy will be released. I don't think they know, which makes me wonder if they're having problems with it. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
