ltdiver 3 #101 December 20, 2003 Quoteand there are some people out there that would try to cheat just to bring home a medal. How would not having a log book help with cheating at Nat's? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #102 December 20, 2003 Let's get this back on track. I don't keep a log book because at the moment I have no real desire to get any further ratings. I have my D and I am in the sport for fun. The only rating I am considering is Senior Rigger, and I don't need a jump log book for that. To me, logging jumps is not important anymore - if I can't recall the jump, then I will make another one to replace that memory. After a jump I am busy packing my canopy and usually a couple others and then it is time to jump again. I can't be bothered, and won't be bothered to log them. I know what jump numer I am at, and I know how current I am....and I am fine to sign a waiver according to Group Memeber DZ's rules. I don't remember the last time I have been asked by someone to see my log book - and I want to know, would I be able to jump there without a log book? Could they call my home DZ, etc.....I'm not looking to go around the system or anything...I just want to jump, pack and jump again. I don't want to argue why or how I should have a log book, or anything else. Yes or No. Would I be able to jump there without a log book, a current D License, current gear requirments, the willingness to sign whatever waiver they have, and talk to their camera to make the lawyers happy._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #103 December 20, 2003 The best answer I could give you is maybe yes and maybe no. By not keeping a log book you impose some restrictions on yourself.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #104 December 20, 2003 That's fine, but not keeping a log book seems like the norm, rather then the exception in this part of the country. It seems like a pretty silly reason to have someone drive to the DZ down the road. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #105 December 20, 2003 QuoteIt may pain people to know that at EVERY USPA Nationals I've attended they've wanted to see your log book....for currency and proof of licensure (you really -do- have enough jumps for a 'C' license and can participate in 'Advanced' 4-way, for instance.) Be prepared if you're not at your home DZ and want to compete at a Nationals. ltdiver Mine too - but not signed. The unusual thing about Perris is the insistence that the logbook be signed even though that is not a USPA requirement. I log all my jumps but only get signatures now on "interesting" ones, like records or Nationals jumps or when I jumped with the GKs.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #106 December 20, 2003 QuoteYou guys are way over the top here. Perris is one of the busuest DZ's in the world and have seen just about every trick in the book form jumpers and non jumpers tryinf to get over on them. We had a guy coem into Square1 that didn't have a license and no training and wanted to rent gear before. I am sure manifest has had poeple try and get on a plane without a USPA license before as well. AS far as young ones taking liberties without managment consent you are way off base there. Dan Cook and Jana have been around DZ longer then must people have been jumping. They are doing there jobs and what is asked of them by their bosses. Dan is one of the best manifesters in the world hands down! It helps if you don't go in with an attitude. I see people get pissed of at the littlest things. If you go to get your gear checked and you don't have a rigger signature who's fault is that? I see this all the time. If you don't have a signature on your reserve card then that is going to send up a red flag. They will be more strict when checking you in. The thinking has to be "If he can't get his reserve in order, what else is wrong?" Keep in mind that you may be known by everybody at your home DZ. They may trust everything you do or say. It is different out here. We have so many people from all over the world come out, and contrary to what some people believe, all skydivers aren't the most trust worthy people in the world. It is no excuse to be rude to anyone, but with as big a place as it is with as many people coming through on any given day they do a great job! Sorry you guys had a bad experience. But just because you have a D license doesn't entitle any of us to anything special when it comes time to sign a wavier or get a gear check. Perris is a GREAT DZ and all the people that run it are top notch and just about the best at what they do. It is hard to keep all the people happy all the time. With as many people that go throught that DZ on anygiven day can you really blame them for trying to make sure everything is on the up an up with every jumper that gets on a plane. It saves them a lot of law suits I am sure. Bottom line is have your reserve card. log book and USPA membership in order and you will be fine. You miss the point entirely. The point is signatures in jump log books, not licenses or reserve cards. Signatures in log books are not a USPA or FAA requirement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #107 December 21, 2003 At the WFFC what is required is 50 jumps. If you can verify that, you are in. From then on, your wrist band tells the story. However, I did have one young man who came in with NO log book, NEW gear ( I assumed was stolen) NO riggers sig on rig. NO current drivers license, and he was in an out of state car, with an out of date license plate on it. There was no way I was gonna let him in. I figured he was just there to see if someone would let him out of a plane.That kind of publicity neither the WFFC nor the sport of skydiving needs. He begged to go find the 'friends' he was supposedly camping with. Sent him back with a couple of security guys, and of course, he couldn't find his friends, or remember their names so that manifest could page them. While he was in with security I tried every list I could think of to see if I could find that rig reported as stolen. No go.skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #108 December 21, 2003 >I don't remember the last time I have been asked by someone to > see my log book - and I want to know, would I be able to jump > there without a log book? I can't answer for Perris, but I can answer for me when I was the guy checking logbooks at Brown. If someone showed up from Perris, said he had been jumping with Tom Allen, Bob Bonitz and company, had an in-date rig, but his USPA license had expired and he didn't get the last 20 jumps in his logbook signed - no problem. We get him to renew his membership right there and let him jump. If someone showed up with: -a new looking logbook containing jumps 200 to 215, all of them signed by either no one, himself, or many illegible signatures in the same hand -an A license -no knowledge of anyone I know of in skydiving -an attitude then I might just require him to make one jump with a coach or something, just in case. Why, you ask? Several years ago, two jumpers arrived at Brown. The woman had a USPA membership but no license. Her logbook showed 20ish jumps, all signed by the guy she arrived with. The logbook started after her student progression. We let them manifest. On exit, Mick noted that he took grips on her almost as if he were an AFF JM. After they landed, I talked to her a little and was amazed at how little she knew. We called around and found out she was a student at Elsinore that kept failing Level III. (He was a licensed jumper but had no ratings.) She was jumping a rig without an AAD or RSL, as I recall. This was before the AAD requirement at Brown. Stuff like this happens. New jumpers _do_ fake logbooks so they can avoid a bunch of expensive AFF jumps in uncomfortable student gear, or so they can go to the cool boogie with their friends. So bottom line - for me, at least, I might be an ass and demand to see signed jumps, primarily so I could see if I recognized any of the names. Then I could ask them if they knew Mad John, or Dan BC, or DJan - and that would give me a slightly better feel that they were actually licensed jumpers who wouldn't die on my DZ. It would all depend on the situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #109 December 21, 2003 Bill, I understand there is always someone trying to get around paying for the expensive jumps, etc. I know of at least one DZ they could go to that would never check.... However, that situation doesn't refer to me, my gear doesn't look shinny new, I know skydiving and could probably answer any question a manifest person could ask of me, I know a lot of people in the sport (however, none of those you mention in your post) since I haven't traveled out west yet) I have two log books, with 200+ jumps missing in between and the newest one has about 5 jumps in it, all with my signature. There has only been one time I couldn't get into a DZ because they were uncertain - I had them call SDC and talk to Roger who verfied that it was ok for me to jump there._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
