Auryn 0 #1 November 26, 2003 I had a strange hop and pop this weekend.. Who else has had the following happen to them ? Exit 3500 feet took a 2 second delay and pitched. Did not feel the main bag come off my back so I looked over my shoulder and saw my pilot chute inflated at the end of the bridle at full extension, just chillin out there. It was mostly directly above me because of course I was still mostly vertical. I looked forward to square my body position and went for my handles and about 1 second later I felt the main bag come off my back and had a normal opening. Anyone else have funky PC in tow but not really, just kidding with you, like this ? we have surmised that contributing factors are: I had a very tight closing loop that was ultra short because my main is really small in my rig. That combined with some wear on the outer grommet creating friction (Im going to fix that before I jump again) and the low speed of the exit caused it. A good friend of mine also pointed out that at 2 seconds is almost the slowest overall airspeed because there is little vertical descent yet and horizontal decelleration has occured at this point. Just looking for anyone else that has had this so I dont feel so lonely about it Blue Ones ! D 27808 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 November 26, 2003 A tight closing loop and a hop-n-pop will sometimes give ya the willies. I'll bet ya dollars to donuts though that the delay between the toss and the actual deployment wasn't too far outside the norm -- outside to be sure, but not -too- far. Here's the deal -- temporal displacement. I've had tosses where I could -swear- there were at least a good couple of seconds between point A and B, yet when checking the tape afterward (and I almost always have tape rolling), it still looks pretty damn normal. Ya get used to a certain feel and timing when you toss and all it takes is a fraction of a second extra and your mind starts playing tricks on you.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #3 November 26, 2003 How many jumps do you have on your PC? Have you done some ground testing on your tight loop with the grommet wear? And how much force does a PC develop at the absolute minimum freefall airspeed you figure you were at? I have heard PCs develop incredible force at terminal; even as low as 50 MPH I would expect them to be capable of pulling a pin, even if the loop is really tight. (See ground test above; involve fish scales; ride in car with friend and hang PC out window at low speed ) How long did you stare at the inflated PC? Maybe it was burbling until you looked and then it got out where it was supposed to be... All just curiousness. Heh - at least you didn't have a heavy spring in yer PC. <====== -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 November 26, 2003 Eh, it happens. Just last week I had to reach behind me and pull out a PC in tow (I *thought* the PC was cocked all the way, I guess it wasn't). I tend to take atleast 5 seconds of delay unless I'm doing CReW. If I'm going to do CReW, I'll pack for it so I'll get a faster opening. Otherwise, subterminal isn't fun for me, atleast I don't think so. I also have a certain way I exit for H&Ps that's stable and builds airspeed pretty fast...I call it the "flying squirrel" but basically I exit in the same body position that someone flying a BM suit would use to deploy. Hands back and behind, legs up, deeeep arch. Works like a champ. I have reached behind me and pulled the bridle to get the d-bag out on H&Ps when I've experienced what you experienced, though. I've always felt it was more of a annoyance then a true mal, though. Especially since from 3500 you'd have, what, about 12 seconds till 2000 ft, plenty of time to fix the problem at hand (i.e. pulling the bridle by hand). Although, I must note, that is not what I teach my students to do and I wouldn't recommend what I do to anyone unless they've got a resonable amount of experience.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #5 November 26, 2003 Quote A good friend of mine also pointed out that at 2 seconds is almost the slowest overall airspeed because there is little vertical descent yet and horizontal decelleration has occured at this point. I think that this line may be key, but I was wondering about one of my hop'n'pops, too. It was in Perris not too long ago. I remember actually picking up speed and going into freefall for a few seconds AFTER I threw out my PC! (Was my PC just "chillin" because I was falling too slow when I pitched and because I am so light?) Anyhoo, I LOVED the hop'n'pop, but I thought that it was "weird". Since I have only done a few of them many jumps ago, I wasn't sure if I was just imagining the strangeness. It was when I had fellow jumpers on my plane that had observed my opening talk to me about it afterwards that I realized that my jump indeed had been a little "strange". They all told me that they thought I was going to have to chop because of my LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG snivel. Yup...when my chute finally decided to begin to open, it was in SLOOOOOW MOOOOOOOTION, too. For some reason, I was very relaxed and not scared at all, but it gave all the big guys on the plane the "willies"! Well, my question is: "Should I have reached for my little silver handle"? I was pretty patient about the whole thing and in full free fall for a couple of seconds after throw out. Should I have been more worried than I was about this situation? That hop'n'pop altitude was just over 4500 (Imo, plenty of time for my long-ass snivel to finally commit.). I threw at 2-3 minutes and was under a fully inflated canopy (after helping my end cells with a back riser bump) just above 3000. (Is that even possible, or is it more likely that I have miscalculated memories of my opening altitude after having talked with the others on the plane?) I jump a Spectre that I load at .79. Thanks in advance. Edited: Btw, no one that saw my hop'n'pop critiqued it at all. The situation just made me really "think" about the whole thing for next time. I want to be prepared for anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelflying 0 #6 November 26, 2003 when doing a low hop 'n pop we get the pilot NOT to throttle back so there is a stronger prop blast.www.skydivekzn.co.za Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 November 26, 2003 Quote . . . but it gave all the big guys on the plane the "willies"! Hop-n-pops frequently give folks in the airplane the willies, especially if for some reason it doesn't conform to what they think -should- be happening -- like an immediate deployment. Especially at Perris where sometimes a hop-n-pop is as high as 6,000! I can take maybe a 20 second delay from that altitude and I've had people on the plane actually think I was going to crater. QuoteWell, my question is: "Should I have reached for my little silver handle"? I was pretty patient about the whole thing and in full free fall for a couple of seconds after throw out. Should I have been more worried than I was about this situation? Did you deploy above the BRS required altitude for your license? Were you under an open canopy above your decision altitude? Sounds to me like you did everything -exactly- correctly. I know of at least one (maybe two) people on hop-n-pops similar to yours, they'd "paniced" a bit, cut away a perfectly good parachute and deployed their reserve. A hop-n-pop feels different because it IS different than a full altitude, freefall terminal deployment. If you know that ahead of time, you'll deal with it and hopefully not panic. Hop-n-pops are valuable. Someday, you -may- need to actually do one in an emergency at a lower than normal altitude in order to save your life. There'll be enough panic to go around already. Hopefully you'll be sort of used to the actual sub-terminal deployment by then.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auryn 0 #8 November 26, 2003 QuoteHow many jumps do you have on your PC? Have you done some ground testing on your tight loop with the grommet wear? And how much force does a PC develop at the absolute minimum freefall airspeed you figure you were at? I have heard PCs develop incredible force at terminal; even as low as 50 MPH I would expect them to be capable of pulling a pin, even if the loop is really tight. (See ground test above; involve fish scales; ride in car with friend and hang PC out window at low speed ) How long did you stare at the inflated PC? Maybe it was burbling until you looked and then it got out where it was supposed to be... All just curiousness. Heh - at least you didn't have a heavy spring in yer PC. <====== I have about 80 jumps on my pc bought brand new. It's around 32 inches f-111. I haven't done any ground testing on the loop because I wanted it tight.. I freefly for the most part. I know from my experience with packing that it was tighter than most but looser than a few people have theirs so I didn't worry about it being too tight.. but that didnt factor the wear which is pretty minor. what really wierded me out was that the PC definately was NOT burbling.. I've had that about 10 time when I was on R/C back in the day ( I had 20 some odd R/C jumps..) When I looked back I didn't see it "go" like you would with a burbling PC because it was allready at full extension. When I looked back the first thing I saw was bridle and I followed the bridle to the top to see the PC inflated..when you factor in the standard "What the F*** is this" time of analysing the situation, I imagine it was about 2 seconds of looking at it. the way you describe it is right.. it just gave me the willies. regarding the force developed by a PC that's what gets me.. even at the slowest exit one would think that it would develop enough force to immediately open the container. more input would definately be appreciated. D 27808 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #9 November 26, 2003 Thank you, Quade. I wanted to hear advice from someone experienced, like you, about this. I'll probably try some more very soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Auryn 0 #10 November 26, 2003 QuoteQuote A good friend of mine also pointed out that at 2 seconds is almost the slowest overall airspeed because there is little vertical descent yet and horizontal decelleration has occured at this point. I think that this line may be key, but I was wondering about one of my hop'n'pops, too. It was in Perris not too long ago. I remember actually picking up speed and going into freefall for a few seconds AFTER I threw out my PC! (Was my PC just "chillin" because I was falling too slow when I pitched and because I am so light?) that back into freefall feeling after pitching may be a combination of: accelerating after deployment because you are still accelerating out of the A/C and a very well cocooned canopy where it takes time for the air to get inside the packjob.. I've both seen and felt this phenomenon.. this would also explain the very slooooow opening everyone saw. eg. a friend of mine I was on FF dive with threw out 100 feet away from me as I was snivelling at 2700 or so.. I saw his canopy sit in a cocoon for a very long time.. just hanging out and then had a normal opening.. by this time he was at 1500 feet. When it happened to me I had a very strong "trap door" effect at terminal. I threw out and felt like I accelerated ! parachutes can be really moody at times. I keep yelling at mine and it doesn't seem to make it any better.Blue Skies ! D 27808 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VanillaSkyGirl 6 #11 November 26, 2003 QuoteWhen it happened to me I had a very strong "trap door" effect at terminal. I threw out and felt like I accelerated ! Yes, that happened to me, too...EXACTLY! t Quoteparachutes can be really moody at times. I keep yelling at mine and it doesn't seem to make it any better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #12 November 26, 2003 QuoteHere's the deal -- temporal displacement. Paul, its called Temporal distortion. This site explains it. http://www.asc2002.com/summaries/i/IP-23.pdf SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genoyamamoto 0 #13 November 26, 2003 Quote Did you deploy above the BRS required altitude for your license? Were you under an open canopy above your decision altitude? When the BSR states a minimum opening altitude, does that mean that one must begin wave-off/deployment procedures at this altitude or is this the minimum altitude one should be at under a deploying/deployed main? Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites velo90 0 #14 November 26, 2003 If you have a bungy kill line the delay will be very noticable on a hop and pop. Also, how many jumps has your pilot chute got? They don't last forever, I have heard that some should be replaced after 500 jumps. They still work but just get slower and slower at deploying the main. A slight delay on a hop 'n pop doesn't worry me to much, it's the delays I'm getting at terminal that worry me. As Quade said, sometimes a very short amount of time can seem ages, but I checked one of them out on video and there was a 3 second delay . Still trying to figure out what exactly is causing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #15 November 26, 2003 Quoteride in car with friend and hang PC out window at low speed )<====== People have had their arms broken doing this. Please don't do it.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydog 2 #16 November 26, 2003 Similar sort of thing happened to me last weekend. I jump an Omni 139 in a wings container. After dispatching a load of students I got out about 3500ft. Waited a couple of seconds and pitched the PC. I was expecting it to be slower than normal, but at the "normal" time nothing had happened. I looked up and had a perfect PC - Bag- lines configuration and not a lot happening. By this time I was near vertical. I grabbed my risers and gave them a hard shake and.............. bingo, out comes the main and everything was hunkey dorey. I and a couple of the other jumpers have noticed very slow deployments with our Wings PC's. (of which there has been a thread) Everything turned out OK, but it will be on mind the next H&P. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #17 November 26, 2003 It sounds like you had a kinda cool hop and pop, but probably not all that unusual. As others have said, hop and pops are different. I'm betting your actual delay time was probably a bit less than you think, and airspeed was pretty low. I'm guessing you were probably also hyper-alert. I enjoy hop and pops and sometimes feel the terror of a pilot chute hesitation just like you. It always makes me smile! My response (automatic) is to wiggle my butt a bit and then bang the container with my elbows. That probably doesn't do anything much, but it keeps me occupied. I did need to reach back and pull the bridle/pin on a CRW exit once, but that's super unusual and NOT recommended at your level. So, enjoy the sensation of a low speed exit and the occasional pilot chute hesitation. Wiggle if you like, but otherwise don't sweat it as an emergency until you freefall for a while or reach your hard deck. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #18 November 26, 2003 QuoteAlthough, I must note, that is not what I teach my students to do and I wouldn't recommend what I do to anyone unless they've got a reasonable amount of experience. Reasonable amount of experience or not, pulling the bridle with your hands can get that arm severely wrapped up in risers, toggles, suspension lines. Then what? Wait on your AAD to fire? If its not what you recommend and its not what you teach.... Luv ya, man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #19 November 26, 2003 When the BSR states a minimum opening altitude, does that mean that one must begin wave-off/deployment procedures at this altitude or is this the minimum altitude one should be at under a deploying/deployed main? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most DZs interpret that as "show a pilotchute above altitude X" or go crater somewhere else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #20 November 26, 2003 The original post reminded me of my last malfunction. A Diablo 135 reminded me that deploying while looking over one's shoulder may result in line twists. The Diablo spun up so bad I had to cut it away. And yes, I have adjusted my kill-line since then. Frankly I doubt that a tight loop will make that much difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #21 November 26, 2003 Container opening altitude. You should be pulling your main ripcord, throwing your pilot chute, pulling your drogue release. With today's slow opening canopies, and even with faster opening gear, it's very easy to conclude that 2000' is too low. Even some of us old timers who aren't afraid to get out at 2000' think the 2 grand at terminal is pretty low. Remember, these are minimums.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #22 November 26, 2003 QuoteI had a strange hop and pop this weekend.. Who else has had the following happen to them ? What type of pilot chute do you have? Kill line collapsible? Bungee collapsible? Standard? A bungee collapsible WILL do this on a hop & pop due to insufficient airspeed to overcome the bungee trying to keep it collapsed. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 2 #23 November 26, 2003 Had one last sunday. exit at 4k 9 second delay pitched 3 or 4 seconds and nothing, was about to go red/silver then stood me up. Check my Skytronic and it said I only reached 90mph. It was also about 5 degress outside the plane so don't know if that had anything to do with it. I was open by 2500 so I had plenty of time to for emergency procedures if nesseccary. Was just real strange. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #24 November 26, 2003 Quote I had a very tight closing loop that was ultra short because my main is really small in my rig. Play with it on the ground some, and you'll find that even a very tight closing loop doesn't have much resistance. Either a somewhat uncocked pilot chute or a kill line that's shrunk can cause this, even at terminal. It takes even less on sub-terminal deployments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #25 November 26, 2003 QuoteIf you have a bungy kill line the delay will be very noticable on a hop and pop. Unless you exit at less then 50 mph, a bungee pilot chute will make no difference at all. If it takes more than 50 mph hour to open it is not made right. Testing them out of a car window will prove nothing unless you drive 80/100 mph and then throw it out the window. That is really going to hurt. Bungee P/C's not working on a C&P is just another urban legend. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Auryn 0 #10 November 26, 2003 QuoteQuote A good friend of mine also pointed out that at 2 seconds is almost the slowest overall airspeed because there is little vertical descent yet and horizontal decelleration has occured at this point. I think that this line may be key, but I was wondering about one of my hop'n'pops, too. It was in Perris not too long ago. I remember actually picking up speed and going into freefall for a few seconds AFTER I threw out my PC! (Was my PC just "chillin" because I was falling too slow when I pitched and because I am so light?) that back into freefall feeling after pitching may be a combination of: accelerating after deployment because you are still accelerating out of the A/C and a very well cocooned canopy where it takes time for the air to get inside the packjob.. I've both seen and felt this phenomenon.. this would also explain the very slooooow opening everyone saw. eg. a friend of mine I was on FF dive with threw out 100 feet away from me as I was snivelling at 2700 or so.. I saw his canopy sit in a cocoon for a very long time.. just hanging out and then had a normal opening.. by this time he was at 1500 feet. When it happened to me I had a very strong "trap door" effect at terminal. I threw out and felt like I accelerated ! parachutes can be really moody at times. I keep yelling at mine and it doesn't seem to make it any better.Blue Skies ! D 27808 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #11 November 26, 2003 QuoteWhen it happened to me I had a very strong "trap door" effect at terminal. I threw out and felt like I accelerated ! Yes, that happened to me, too...EXACTLY! t Quoteparachutes can be really moody at times. I keep yelling at mine and it doesn't seem to make it any better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #12 November 26, 2003 QuoteHere's the deal -- temporal displacement. Paul, its called Temporal distortion. This site explains it. http://www.asc2002.com/summaries/i/IP-23.pdf SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites genoyamamoto 0 #13 November 26, 2003 Quote Did you deploy above the BRS required altitude for your license? Were you under an open canopy above your decision altitude? When the BSR states a minimum opening altitude, does that mean that one must begin wave-off/deployment procedures at this altitude or is this the minimum altitude one should be at under a deploying/deployed main? Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites velo90 0 #14 November 26, 2003 If you have a bungy kill line the delay will be very noticable on a hop and pop. Also, how many jumps has your pilot chute got? They don't last forever, I have heard that some should be replaced after 500 jumps. They still work but just get slower and slower at deploying the main. A slight delay on a hop 'n pop doesn't worry me to much, it's the delays I'm getting at terminal that worry me. As Quade said, sometimes a very short amount of time can seem ages, but I checked one of them out on video and there was a 3 second delay . Still trying to figure out what exactly is causing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #15 November 26, 2003 Quoteride in car with friend and hang PC out window at low speed )<====== People have had their arms broken doing this. Please don't do it.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydog 2 #16 November 26, 2003 Similar sort of thing happened to me last weekend. I jump an Omni 139 in a wings container. After dispatching a load of students I got out about 3500ft. Waited a couple of seconds and pitched the PC. I was expecting it to be slower than normal, but at the "normal" time nothing had happened. I looked up and had a perfect PC - Bag- lines configuration and not a lot happening. By this time I was near vertical. I grabbed my risers and gave them a hard shake and.............. bingo, out comes the main and everything was hunkey dorey. I and a couple of the other jumpers have noticed very slow deployments with our Wings PC's. (of which there has been a thread) Everything turned out OK, but it will be on mind the next H&P. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #17 November 26, 2003 It sounds like you had a kinda cool hop and pop, but probably not all that unusual. As others have said, hop and pops are different. I'm betting your actual delay time was probably a bit less than you think, and airspeed was pretty low. I'm guessing you were probably also hyper-alert. I enjoy hop and pops and sometimes feel the terror of a pilot chute hesitation just like you. It always makes me smile! My response (automatic) is to wiggle my butt a bit and then bang the container with my elbows. That probably doesn't do anything much, but it keeps me occupied. I did need to reach back and pull the bridle/pin on a CRW exit once, but that's super unusual and NOT recommended at your level. So, enjoy the sensation of a low speed exit and the occasional pilot chute hesitation. Wiggle if you like, but otherwise don't sweat it as an emergency until you freefall for a while or reach your hard deck. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #18 November 26, 2003 QuoteAlthough, I must note, that is not what I teach my students to do and I wouldn't recommend what I do to anyone unless they've got a reasonable amount of experience. Reasonable amount of experience or not, pulling the bridle with your hands can get that arm severely wrapped up in risers, toggles, suspension lines. Then what? Wait on your AAD to fire? If its not what you recommend and its not what you teach.... Luv ya, man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #19 November 26, 2003 When the BSR states a minimum opening altitude, does that mean that one must begin wave-off/deployment procedures at this altitude or is this the minimum altitude one should be at under a deploying/deployed main? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most DZs interpret that as "show a pilotchute above altitude X" or go crater somewhere else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 November 26, 2003 QuoteHere's the deal -- temporal displacement. Paul, its called Temporal distortion. This site explains it. http://www.asc2002.com/summaries/i/IP-23.pdf SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #13 November 26, 2003 Quote Did you deploy above the BRS required altitude for your license? Were you under an open canopy above your decision altitude? When the BSR states a minimum opening altitude, does that mean that one must begin wave-off/deployment procedures at this altitude or is this the minimum altitude one should be at under a deploying/deployed main? Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #14 November 26, 2003 If you have a bungy kill line the delay will be very noticable on a hop and pop. Also, how many jumps has your pilot chute got? They don't last forever, I have heard that some should be replaced after 500 jumps. They still work but just get slower and slower at deploying the main. A slight delay on a hop 'n pop doesn't worry me to much, it's the delays I'm getting at terminal that worry me. As Quade said, sometimes a very short amount of time can seem ages, but I checked one of them out on video and there was a 3 second delay . Still trying to figure out what exactly is causing this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #15 November 26, 2003 Quoteride in car with friend and hang PC out window at low speed )<====== People have had their arms broken doing this. Please don't do it.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #16 November 26, 2003 Similar sort of thing happened to me last weekend. I jump an Omni 139 in a wings container. After dispatching a load of students I got out about 3500ft. Waited a couple of seconds and pitched the PC. I was expecting it to be slower than normal, but at the "normal" time nothing had happened. I looked up and had a perfect PC - Bag- lines configuration and not a lot happening. By this time I was near vertical. I grabbed my risers and gave them a hard shake and.............. bingo, out comes the main and everything was hunkey dorey. I and a couple of the other jumpers have noticed very slow deployments with our Wings PC's. (of which there has been a thread) Everything turned out OK, but it will be on mind the next H&P. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #17 November 26, 2003 It sounds like you had a kinda cool hop and pop, but probably not all that unusual. As others have said, hop and pops are different. I'm betting your actual delay time was probably a bit less than you think, and airspeed was pretty low. I'm guessing you were probably also hyper-alert. I enjoy hop and pops and sometimes feel the terror of a pilot chute hesitation just like you. It always makes me smile! My response (automatic) is to wiggle my butt a bit and then bang the container with my elbows. That probably doesn't do anything much, but it keeps me occupied. I did need to reach back and pull the bridle/pin on a CRW exit once, but that's super unusual and NOT recommended at your level. So, enjoy the sensation of a low speed exit and the occasional pilot chute hesitation. Wiggle if you like, but otherwise don't sweat it as an emergency until you freefall for a while or reach your hard deck. Tom Buchanan Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem) Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #18 November 26, 2003 QuoteAlthough, I must note, that is not what I teach my students to do and I wouldn't recommend what I do to anyone unless they've got a reasonable amount of experience. Reasonable amount of experience or not, pulling the bridle with your hands can get that arm severely wrapped up in risers, toggles, suspension lines. Then what? Wait on your AAD to fire? If its not what you recommend and its not what you teach.... Luv ya, man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #19 November 26, 2003 When the BSR states a minimum opening altitude, does that mean that one must begin wave-off/deployment procedures at this altitude or is this the minimum altitude one should be at under a deploying/deployed main? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most DZs interpret that as "show a pilotchute above altitude X" or go crater somewhere else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #20 November 26, 2003 The original post reminded me of my last malfunction. A Diablo 135 reminded me that deploying while looking over one's shoulder may result in line twists. The Diablo spun up so bad I had to cut it away. And yes, I have adjusted my kill-line since then. Frankly I doubt that a tight loop will make that much difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #21 November 26, 2003 Container opening altitude. You should be pulling your main ripcord, throwing your pilot chute, pulling your drogue release. With today's slow opening canopies, and even with faster opening gear, it's very easy to conclude that 2000' is too low. Even some of us old timers who aren't afraid to get out at 2000' think the 2 grand at terminal is pretty low. Remember, these are minimums.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #22 November 26, 2003 QuoteI had a strange hop and pop this weekend.. Who else has had the following happen to them ? What type of pilot chute do you have? Kill line collapsible? Bungee collapsible? Standard? A bungee collapsible WILL do this on a hop & pop due to insufficient airspeed to overcome the bungee trying to keep it collapsed. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #23 November 26, 2003 Had one last sunday. exit at 4k 9 second delay pitched 3 or 4 seconds and nothing, was about to go red/silver then stood me up. Check my Skytronic and it said I only reached 90mph. It was also about 5 degress outside the plane so don't know if that had anything to do with it. I was open by 2500 so I had plenty of time to for emergency procedures if nesseccary. Was just real strange. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #24 November 26, 2003 Quote I had a very tight closing loop that was ultra short because my main is really small in my rig. Play with it on the ground some, and you'll find that even a very tight closing loop doesn't have much resistance. Either a somewhat uncocked pilot chute or a kill line that's shrunk can cause this, even at terminal. It takes even less on sub-terminal deployments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #25 November 26, 2003 QuoteIf you have a bungy kill line the delay will be very noticable on a hop and pop. Unless you exit at less then 50 mph, a bungee pilot chute will make no difference at all. If it takes more than 50 mph hour to open it is not made right. Testing them out of a car window will prove nothing unless you drive 80/100 mph and then throw it out the window. That is really going to hurt. Bungee P/C's not working on a C&P is just another urban legend. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
