Is there a specific license you need to jump with a tandem pair?

[schattenjaeger 0]

A friend of mine finally decided he wants to go tandem, but it'll be late January, so I'll have my A by then

[Kris 0]

Jumping With Tandems

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[shmali 0]

Generally what i've been told is that you should have 100 jumps before you consider this. Mainly because of the experience needed to be able to control yourself and not endanger the tandem/tandem master. However, ultimately it is up to the tandem master to allow (or not allow) you to jump with them.

That being said I actually encountered this topic this past weekend when i brought one of my friends and his brother down to do a tandem for the brothers birthday.

When i asked i was told exactly what i related above, but the tandem master told me he'd give me a shot (since there was no video guy) at trying to keep up. (remember with the 2 people they will fall at ffier speeds on exit but once the drouge comes out they will be quite floaty and have a huge burble that if you get caught in will want to pull you up and over on top of them)

It won't hurt to ask but don't take it personally if they say no. Remember their priority is their safety and the tandem's safety.

Hope this helps

Pineappe Death Juice, If you have to ask you'd rather not know!

[schattenjaeger 0]

so PROBABLY a no, then? He wants to know if I can go with him too, and I'll just give him the most likely answer.

[AggieDave 6]

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Generally what i've been told is that you should have 100 jumps before you consider this.

If you have 100 jumps and you ask to jump with me while I'm doing a tandem, you'll be told a very direct "No".

The only two people I let near me with less then 500 jumps both are MUCH better RW guys then I am with about 900 jumps. One of them has 6+hrs of tunnel time and is a SDU coach, although he has about 300 jumps, he's welcome to come along.

There are people with over 500 jumps I won't let near me while I'm doing a tandem.

Its all about skill AND more importantly, judgement.

You can have all the skill in the world, but if your judgement making ability is skewed...well, you'd be putting myself and more importantly, my student in danger.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[schattenjaeger 0]

So DEFINATELY a no? From all the discussion I'm seeing on it, hell, even if they say yes I'D be like HELL NO. But I'm sincerely doubting I'll get a yes

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[ltdiver 3]

Where I jump they require that you have:

1) Minimum of 500 jumps
2) Be an AFFI
3) Be cleared by the school and the TM you'd be jumping with.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[AggieDave 6]

Oh, for you? At 20 jumps? If we sat down and I explained all the risks invovled for you as well as the pair, I doubt you'd actually ask to lurk a tandem until you had a few hundred jumps.

Sorry bro. Just give it time.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Plaedouh 0]

Your final answer will come from your DZO, and the Tandem master. Plenty of people here will give you their opinions, but there is no BSR that really has the definite answer. In my experience, until you get 100 jumps, AND you find yourself in a very relaxed DZ where you have a very safe and well known reputation, don't get your hopes up.

I did my first tandem lurk with about 95 jumps. Never even tried to approach them, i was happy we could see eachother from a far distance. Still, looking back, that was too soon for me. If you think about it, there is sooo much involved here. First, how good a flyer will you be? Can you catch up safely with a tandem who throws out the drouge late? Are you so safe in the air that if you were to get too close, you could react fast enough to keep well clear of the drouge and bridle? Moving in, backing up, fall rate and tracking are all things you need to be proven at doing well, as well as having a good head on your shoulders.

Anything can happen, but with what I have seen and done, I wouldn't anticipate you'd be ready until you are well past 100 jumps (and the agreeable DZO and Instructor stuff).

A big final thought is this. That drouge is a unique piece of equiptment used in a tandem jump. If you in any way interact with it, weather or not you intend to, either during the attempted deployment, or during the tandem freefall, you can endanger not only yourself, but both tandem instructor and tandem passanger.

[nightjumps 1]

I'm sorry, but I would have to ask you not to lurk me on a Tandem.

[akarunway 1]

I did two after 200 jumps but the students were my kids. Had to ok it w/ the ST&a and the TM. We debated whether I should go float before the camera man vs. a chase . We decided a chase w/ a spilt sec. delay on my exit. All went well. Shook both kids hands on their jumps at 7000' and was outta there at 6000'. Daughter did good but they called my son "the tandem from hell". You do get distracted w/ it tho as I was on my back watching them deploy and fly when I realized I was at 1600' on my back over a river. Another story. I'm here to tell it tho

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[AggieDave 6]

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Shook both kids hands on their jumps

Some TMs don't mind, but that bothers me. Obviously it worked out, but allowing the student to have control of a dock can be very dangerous.

Student has the dock (i.e. shaking hands) + student has a white knuckled death grip due to fear (seen students that scared in freefall before, every TM has) + deployment altitude = BAD.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rehmwa 2]

With the number of jumps you have, you will -not- be ready by January. You could ask, but I'd recommend not putting the TM in the uncomfortable position of having to say no. Sometimes people really get bent out of shape. So be classy about it and evaluate your RW/diving/level holding/lurking skills and recognize that you need to establish a reputation of being skillful before lurking something that doesn't have the mobility to avoid someone trying their best but still unpredictable.

Generally (for others who are ready to chase), I'd say the call is primarily the TM's (ask about his preferred method of docking - whether he takes grips or you do, whether he prefers right or left hand, whether he wants the dock on him or the passenger or not-at-all -> everyone is different, you have to accommodate him, not him accommodate you - if you aren't good enough to float right up to a reasonably, but not perfectly, steady, grip and lurk with your hand a couple inches away, you should really not do this, also recognize a tandem sliding all over the place and have the judgement to back off further is even more important).

And of course the DZO and S&TA set policy at his DZ.

Also I'd make sure the camerman knows as he might want to brief you as well on where to be as to not ruin the video for the customer. Some of these guys are true artists and the courtesy to let him know you are in the air and in the shot is very important to making the video good - if he says no, then the real decision still lies with the TM and the passenger, in my opinion......

good luck

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jumperconway 0]

I probably had 350 jumps before jumping with a tandem. I had a lot of r/w experience with the TM and all those jumps in well less than a year so very, very current. Standard rule at the dz are 500 jumps and/or approval of the TM. If I were you, I wouldn't ask unless you want to lurk from a long way away!

[Surf 0]

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So DEFINATELY a no? ...

Thats a good attitude IMHO. Ask to exit before them and do a float exit. If the TM and Vid are OK with it, that'll be just as good.

We all want to be there, thats the whole point, right? but I'll know I'm ready when the TM INVITES me, rather than me having to ask.

"Nothing is written"- T.E. Lawrence

[mischo 0]

Wassup bro,
I am sure you are getting tired of all of the no's by now. (I agree with all of the posts by the way) I come with a different solution. Get on the same load as your buddy and with the TIs permission talk to him on the way up. The TI might be preping, or talking to the passenger on the way up to altitude. Wish your buddy luck and do a solo or some other classification of a jump in front of him. I am sure that this will add to the experience for both of you. Most of the people I have taken for tandems genuinely dig seeing the others take their position in the door and disappear. Insert the repeated OH MY GAWD! sound track here.
peace
Mish

[AndyMan 7]

At one DZ I was offered when I had just about a hundred jumps - TM asked in the plane 5 minutes before exit "you comin with me?" - student was my GF at the time, I declined because it hadn't been planned and I didn't understand the issues,. The TM was actualy the DZ S&TA at a small relaxed club.

With 350 jumps I asked and was declined at a large Chicago area DZ when I took a co-worker out. The TM said yes, but the video guy declined. Later the manifest-chick said I should've told her and she would've found me a new video guy.

So... it REALLy depends on where you are. That said, with 20 jumps there really isn't any chance of a 'yes', I would politely keep my distance even during the training, and not even suggest coming along.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[schattenjaeger 0]

haha, thanks for the resounding answers, but I really did get the point after the first post

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[AggieDave 6]

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I've got no problem diving out before my friend, I'm sure he'll enjoy it all the same

When I had fewer jumps, that what I would do when friends came out to do tandems. I'd chat with them on the plane, give them a high-five or something then exit. They always got a kick out of seeing me leave before them.

You can play jokes that way too...act like you slipped and fell out of the door, stuff like that.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[algboy 0]

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A friend of mine finally decided he wants to go tandem, but it'll be late January, so I'll have my A by then

My 20-year old stepdaughter will be doing her 1st tandem during the Eloy Holiday boogie, on the 27th, and I hope to be on the same load with her, give her lots of thumbs ups and smiles--then dive out on my own with no lurking. The ink is still wet on my new "A" license. I don't feel it is the time to try something THAT dicey. Too much downside potential, for what? A little ego boost?

I love her too much to even dream about being in the same vicinity as her during her jump. Maybe I can bundle up my chute really fast and meet her as she comes down.

“Keep your elbow up!"

[murps2000 86]

As a TI, I can say that I, for one, appreciate the attitude you have about this. Personally, I have had two of the people who have asked me if they could lurk get quite offended when I declined. One had almost 300 jumps. But after having some of the people that I allowed to come deviate from the plan, even after they were briefed, my attitude changed. I've had people with as many as 1500 jumps, and lots of tandem video experience come up and grab my wrist on a tandem. They thought it was no big deal. But they never strapped on a tandem rig and a passenger, and have no idea how scary it is to have anyone grab your arms in freefall with a tandem. Now, if I have any doubts about your judgement or flying ability, I will not feel one bit uncomfortable saying no. I would hope other tandem instructors would feel the same.

As has already been stated in this thread, you will have a great time just riding to altitude with your friend, and you will both enjoy making eye contact right as you back-flip out ahead of them. There is one thing I'd like to add, however, and this applies to anyone talking to tandems on the ride to altitude.

A tandem instructor often has about 15 minutes to talk with a student before taking them to the plane to go up and do what is, for most, a scary thing. There isn't a whole lot that the student is required to learn, but what they learn they must remember to do, or they can make life miserable for the instructor. Things like "keep your arms crossed" "arch on exit" "keep your legs back between mine" are simple tasks, but on the way to altitude, they often need to be reinforced to the student, who can be quite nervous. You may think, by suggesting to the student to "remember to look all around" or "make sure to check out the airplane as you leave", that you are giving them pointers that will make their skydive more enjoyable. Often times, tho, you being discourteous to the instructor, who is really the one who should be telling the student what they should remember to do. More than once, in the middle of talking a student through the dive plan, I've had fun-jumpers break in with some well-intended comment, only to have to start over from the beginning, so that the student can remember the dive flow. So, just as a suggestion for when you take your friend to experience something that they will enjoy and remember forever, be thoughtful of the instructor whose job it is to insure that it will be done safely. I'm not saying that you shouldn't talk to the student at all, but just that you should be mindful of what you say, and when you say it.

I hope you and your friend have a great time.
Blue ones...

[captainpooby 0]

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A friend of mine finally decided he wants to go tandem, but it'll be late January, so I'll have my A by then

Absolutely not with your experience level. Any tandem instructor or videographer who says yes you dont want your friend to jump with.

I have 2000+ tandems and 4000+ video jumps.

Most times, even with experienced skydivers, it wrecks the video. Tandem instructors and videographers work together to make a great experience for the passenger.
If you come along we become more concerned with our own safety than our jobs.
Plus, I have seen more unsafe things from people I call my friends who are good skydivers on tandem skydives than on any other type of jump.

I would be happy if no one ever asked me again if they could join us on a tandem.

[captainpooby 0]

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I did two after 200 jumps but the students were my kids. Had to ok it w/ the ST&a and the TM. We debated whether I should go float before the camera man vs. a chase . We decided a chase w/ a spilt sec. delay on my exit. All went well. Shook both kids hands on their jumps at 7000' and was outta there at 6000'. Daughter did good but they called my son "the tandem from hell". You do get distracted w/ it tho as I was on my back watching them deploy and fly when I realized I was at 1600' on my back over a river. Another story. I'm here to tell it tho

This is exactly my point.

"Father dies on son's first jump."

I can see the headlines.

Then there was the guy who killed his Mom on a tandem.

It is not "Just another jump" it is very serious.

[Rhonda66 0]

I think it depends on where you're jumping and how good of a jumper you are known to be.

I made my 2nd tandem right after my husband got licensed and the TM would not let him jump with us, which was fine. He jumped out just before us, which was also fine with me. I highly doubt that any responsible TM would let anyone who just got an "A" license jump with them.

At about 100 jumps he started jumping a camera and at just over 200 jumps did video for several tandems, all people related to us, or friends.

With 200+ jumps, I still wouldn't even ask to jump with a tandem cuz I'm a flailer on occasion

Rhonda
PP ASEL

[Deuce 1]

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Where I jump they require that you have:

1) Minimum of 500 jumps
2) Be an AFFI
3) Be cleared by the school and the TM you'd be jumping with.

ltdiver

Lori, are all the camera fliers AFFI's?

And the first time I got close to a tandem it really had my attention. The passenger is flailing around, that drogue is dancing, there's handles all the f*ck over that rig, and the passenger doesn't know the first thing about what's going on, even with the most thorough of briefings.

And that burble is a freaking black hole.

Get really good at RW. Some of your organizers will get to know your skill level, and they'll share their observations with the TM's. THat will move up the date when the TM says "yes".