Luv2Fall 0
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PhreeZone 20
Forgetting the Altimeter is'nt a big deal.
Looking back at myself and my posts from a year ago, 2 years ago and before that even is humbling... things that I swore then I knew to be true I now know to be far far from the truth. Things that I heard and spoke like they were gospel then I know to be coming from false messiah's now. Even things I experienced then I look back and say how did I survive that knowing what I know now?
I'm going to make an effort from now on to keep my mouth shut more and listen more. Not only listen more... but listen from the right people. People like Ron, BillVon, Bill Booth, KellyF, Mjosparky... they have have things to teach if people are willing to listen. Part of listening is keeping your ears open and your mouth closed.
Looking back at myself and my posts from a year ago, 2 years ago and before that even is humbling... things that I swore then I knew to be true I now know to be far far from the truth. Things that I heard and spoke like they were gospel then I know to be coming from false messiah's now. Even things I experienced then I look back and say how did I survive that knowing what I know now?
I'm going to make an effort from now on to keep my mouth shut more and listen more. Not only listen more... but listen from the right people. People like Ron, BillVon, Bill Booth, KellyF, Mjosparky... they have have things to teach if people are willing to listen. Part of listening is keeping your ears open and your mouth closed.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
Michele 1
QuoteI'm talking arguing - not clarification. Michelle is grinding the axe on someone else's behalf here.
No, Michele is not. Please don't assume anything, Tonto.
I asked for clarification. I asked because I wanted to understand the parameters of CBS's question. I answered from my experience. I said nothing about wingsuit, camera, et cetera.
And the original question "if I see someone do something dangerous" indeed was about chest straps...not swooping. I know nothing about swooping. I do know about chest straps.
This is an interesting thread.
Ciels-
Michele
~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~
QuoteLooking back at myself and my posts from a year ago, 2 years ago and before that even is humbling... things that I swore then I knew to be true I now know to be far far from the truth. Things that I heard and spoke like they were gospel then I know to be coming from false messiah's now. Even things I experienced then I look back and say how did I survive that knowing what I know now?
I'm going to make an effort from now on to keep my mouth shut more and listen more. Not only listen more... but listen from the right people. People like Ron, BillVon, Bill Booth, KellyF, Mjosparky... they have have things to teach if people are willing to listen. Part of listening is keeping your ears open and your mouth closed.
You and me both. The longer I've been in the sport and the more I learn, the more I really realize that I don't know very much. Its nice that on this site we have folks like Bill Booth, Ron, KellyF, Hooknswoop etc that are willing to give their educated opinions to help us out.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
Quote
I'm going to make an effort from now on to keep my mouth shut more and listen more. Not only listen more... but listen from the right people. People like Ron, BillVon, Bill Booth, KellyF, Mjosparky... they have have things to teach if people are willing to listen. Part of listening is keeping your ears open and your mouth closed.
wouldn't be wiser to ask someone you know has more expierence than you if you see something questionable or you don't see something? By approaching a senior instuctor or the S&TA to satisfy your mind. but if you get told that it is nothing to worry about and it is explained fully and completely and that the jumper in question is well aware of the situation then your answer is given without interuption to the diver in question. You then may be able to get enough nerve as a newbie or who ever to ask the jumper in question about what you saw then you have possibly prevented something from going wrong. I guess all i am saying is if i ask someone with more expierence a question and get brushed off then i choose not to get in the plane with that person until i feel right. cheers
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who Jah bless Let no man curse.
Here's part of a thread that I argued with someone with much more experience than me in:
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Me " Hi, Chris. I understand your logic here. Just thought i'd point out that you could be losing valuable ground coverage while doing this. So, maybe you're unsure, and you decide to float in brakes. You still don't really know what you're doing for a while, and then you have no chance to make it back to the dz because you were downwind flying in brakes and now you are forced to find an alternate.
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Chirs: I disagree, Angela. I believe that if flying in brakes up high while making your plans would prevent you from making it back to the DZ, then you needed to find an alternate landing area anyway
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Well, lookee there. I thought I knew what I was talking about but after reading his logic a few times, I agree with the point he was making. I mean, who wants to count on just barely making it back, anyhow? That makes sense, if you're flying in brakes for a moment is going to affect your not making it back, then maybe you should be seeking an alternate landing area. Good point, I learned something.
So, maybe my arguements seem disrespectful to someone with more experience. But, you know what, this person did not get nasty about how I have no jumps and he is right because he does. He argued a point with respect and clarified what he was trying to say without putting me down for arguing with someone with more experience. Maybe I had no place to argue, but so what, I learned something, and maybe someone else had the same thoughts as me and learned something as well.
Personally, I am not going to give advice on hook turns, and shit like that. And, i'm not going to tell someone they will be 100% ok flying the same canopy as i'm flying, because I can't guarantee that. But, I have been playing with the accuracy trick and I felt I knew enough to respond there. I wasn't answering anyones question, I was arguing. I learn a great deal from debating points with people. I cannot simply read something and not understand it and accept it as correct when I don't think it is or have reason to believe that it is not based on what I already know. Debating greatly improves my own understanding of things time and time again, and I am not about to stop doing it because a few people think i'm unqualified to speak on this forum.
So, my opinion is that if it isn't going to kill someone, and I don't think that my argument was going to, then I think that arguing with those more experienced is ok. They are equiped with enough knowledge to retort.
Angela.
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Me " Hi, Chris. I understand your logic here. Just thought i'd point out that you could be losing valuable ground coverage while doing this. So, maybe you're unsure, and you decide to float in brakes. You still don't really know what you're doing for a while, and then you have no chance to make it back to the dz because you were downwind flying in brakes and now you are forced to find an alternate.
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Chirs: I disagree, Angela. I believe that if flying in brakes up high while making your plans would prevent you from making it back to the DZ, then you needed to find an alternate landing area anyway
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Well, lookee there. I thought I knew what I was talking about but after reading his logic a few times, I agree with the point he was making. I mean, who wants to count on just barely making it back, anyhow? That makes sense, if you're flying in brakes for a moment is going to affect your not making it back, then maybe you should be seeking an alternate landing area. Good point, I learned something.
So, maybe my arguements seem disrespectful to someone with more experience. But, you know what, this person did not get nasty about how I have no jumps and he is right because he does. He argued a point with respect and clarified what he was trying to say without putting me down for arguing with someone with more experience. Maybe I had no place to argue, but so what, I learned something, and maybe someone else had the same thoughts as me and learned something as well.
Personally, I am not going to give advice on hook turns, and shit like that. And, i'm not going to tell someone they will be 100% ok flying the same canopy as i'm flying, because I can't guarantee that. But, I have been playing with the accuracy trick and I felt I knew enough to respond there. I wasn't answering anyones question, I was arguing. I learn a great deal from debating points with people. I cannot simply read something and not understand it and accept it as correct when I don't think it is or have reason to believe that it is not based on what I already know. Debating greatly improves my own understanding of things time and time again, and I am not about to stop doing it because a few people think i'm unqualified to speak on this forum.
So, my opinion is that if it isn't going to kill someone, and I don't think that my argument was going to, then I think that arguing with those more experienced is ok. They are equiped with enough knowledge to retort.
Angela.
Remember, it goes both ways (this is pointed at no one in particular).
If you want respect, give respect. If a newbie wants the seasoned jumper to listen and respect their thoughts an opinions, the newbie should do the same.
Oh yea, somewhere in there you should try to have some fun as well.
If you want respect, give respect. If a newbie wants the seasoned jumper to listen and respect their thoughts an opinions, the newbie should do the same.
Oh yea, somewhere in there you should try to have some fun as well.
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
Tonto 1
QuoteQuoteI'm talking arguing - not clarification. Michelle is grinding the axe on someone else's behalf here.
No, Michele is not. Please don't assume anything, Tonto.
Hi Michelle,
Apologies for the assumption.
I didn't think the chest strap issue was an act - more of an omission. I guess like everything, too much info is better than too little, although hearing the same thing (Oh! Look! Tonto forgot his helmet!) every weekend since 1987 can get to be a bit much.
I still don't think safety should be a democracy though, where newbies just ask more and more people until they get the answer they want.
t
It's the year of the Pig.
Push 0
QuoteI'm tired of people with under 1000 dives telling me I'm dangerous for doing something I've been doing for decades and thousands and thousands of jumps, like the "hook turns are dangerous! You should know better." speech from someone with 55 jumps, or the "CRW is for madmen. You could get wrapped - entangled! Die!" from someone with 1000's of dives who has never done CReW, but faithfully carries their little orange plastic Zak knife to cut their thumb open when they have a lineover.
It's my belief that you, as the person with more experience, have a responsibility to not get pissed off at stupid questions and speeches, but to correct. Someone tells you hook turns are dangerous? Agree with him and explain how you have tonnes of experience and can do them within a reasonable safety margin, something they can't do yet. Someone calls you crazy for doing CRW? Try to tell them some of your experiences at least, if it's worth it. That's my .02 anyway. I do the same with whuffos that say "skydiving is crazy!" Often they get interested enough to at least come and have a look.
There's also a personal anecdote I have that I feel would be interesting in this thread. When I bought my 160 Tri, I went through a downsizing process before jumping it, just like I learned on this board. I was jumping a 215 F111 canopy when an experienced jumper I respect told me that I would be fine jumping my 160, it would behave similarly because it's ZP. Now, the Tri is a CRW canopy, and it really doesn't have that much flare, at least that's what I feel after comparing it to the Safire2 and talking to people at the DZs around here. It's definitely not like the F111 canopies that you simply stab all the way down and they stop dead in their tracks. Suffice to say I crashed and got real dirty on that first jump with it, and many subsequent jumps.
Now I've flown a 149 Safire2. The people who watched me all said that my control of it was great, even people who constantly criticize me about my flight on the Triathlon. I'm still short of funds for it, so, since I still haven't bought it, people still give me advice. All too often I hear that I should go with a 139. Now, I weigh much more than I look, so this advice is often based on their perceived weight, not my actual weight. If I did not have this webpage, I would not know that I need to inform them of my real weight. I would have just listened and bought a 139. My wingloading on it would be almost 1.45. I do not feel ready for this, and I'm kind of attached to the bones in my legs, if you know what I mean.
Through this webpage I learned how to filter good advice from bad advice. The experienced people here are quick to pounce on the bad advice, so newbies learn to recognize it. And, as with everything, expertise shines through.
-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.
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