The Dropzone.com USPA Liability Insurance Poll

[Scrumpot 1]

On the front page of your-all's Dropzone Log on Screen, there is a current poll asking whether or not any of us has (carries) PERSONAL LIABILITY insurance, other than that provided via USPA membership, which would cover damages caused by us to OTHERS property (etc) resultant of our skydiving activity.

So far (1/5/2004 @ 4:45 EST) there are 115 respondents who say they do!! I doubt this very much (I work for an insurance company, and understand intimately how difficult obtaining specifically this type of coverage really is!) and am wondering how many of you may have confused having your own personal "insurance coverage" (in general, or for life, health or disability) with this VERY SPECIFIC form of coverage that this poll is trying to compare and extract statistics to?

So, now potentially reconsidering this, MY poll question to you all is as follows:

Did you understand completely the dropzone.com public poll currently running on our front page (log-in screen) of dropzone.com?

Feel free to vote "annonymously" without having to post any commentary/reply in this thread at all, if you so desire.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jumperconway 0]

Yes in my homeowners policy. And it's ya'll not yours-all

[Blahr 0]

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Yes in my homeowners policy. And it's ya'll not yours-all

You mean it not "You'ze guys"??

[Scrumpot 1]

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And it's ya'll not yours-all

I never could get those southern colloquialisms down right! ...Thanks for helping me out with that Conway.

BTW, even with your homeowners personal liability language, which I agree, is in most policies, you may be well served in re-reviewing it for an "extreme sports casualty" or further "acts of god" exemption clauses. Some policies still, even refer to a SEPARATE, yet binding "master escape" exemption policy, which you may or may not even have full awareness of or direct access to (it is the company's own internal procedures policy further defining those ever so illusive "acts of god" I just mentioned). I've seen claims negated in the past based upon just such "escape" (read: OBSCURE) clauses! FWIW.

PLUS, (and I just went back & re-reviewed myself a personal liability clause in my own H/O policy) personal liability CAN also be limited to claims within one's covered domain, or residence/property. Then, if "off premises" will only cover those losses to YOUR OWN property. For instance, I do know of several jumpers (including myself once -ahem) who have recovered for replacement of their rigs after having them cut-off by paramedics due to a landing accident. However, (and again, this is a BIG however) this is NOT personal LIABILITY coverage (to others)!! Instead, this is personal property coverage (for YOUR OWN property). It will not, and DOES NOT cover OTHERS property in this type of claim.

Let's say for instance, as a part of my accident I crashed through somebodies fence, or roof. That damage, I am going to imagine would NOT be covered by my homeowners policy (as my rig was)!! Conway, sorry but now I can not even find where in a homeowners policy, this type of coverage might be applicable, or afforded. Granted that Homeowners is not a type of coverage provided at all by my company, so is not my area of expertise. So maybe you can enlighten me?

Thanks again for the "grammatical" help y'all (is that applicable to an individual, like in this case, as well?)...

-Grant

Edited to add my "PLUS" language paragraph...

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[newsstand 0]

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And it's ya'll not yours-all

Considering the context I think it is y'allses. BTW it is never ya'll but y'all.

y'all (singular)
all of y'all (plural)
y'alls (possesive)
y'allses or all of y'alls (plural possesive)

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[ChileRelleno 0]

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And it's ya'll not yours-all

Actually its "Y'all"... Get it right!


Dang! Newsstand beat me to it...

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[Scrumpot 1]

Oops! ...Reposting this entirely, in case it gets somehow otherwise "buried" (who ever re-reads posts ...other than me that is, anyway )

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PLUS, (and I just went back & re-reviewed myself a personal liability clause in my own H/O policy) personal liability CAN also be limited to claims within one's covered domain, or residence/property. Then, if "off premises" will only cover those losses to YOUR OWN property. For instance, I do know of several jumpers (including myself once -ahem) who have recovered for replacement of their rigs after having them cut-off by paramedics due to a landing accident. However, (and again, this is a BIG however) this is NOT personal LIABILITY coverage (to others)!! Instead, this is personal property coverage (for YOUR OWN property). It will not, and DOES NOT cover OTHERS property in this type of claim.

Let's say for instance, as a part of my accident I crashed through somebodies fence, or roof. That damage, I am going to imagine would NOT be covered by my homeowners policy (as my rig was)!! Conway, sorry but now I can not even find where in a homeowners policy, this type of coverage might be applicable, or afforded. Granted that Homeowners is not a type of coverage provided at all by my company, so is not my area of expertise. So maybe you can enlighten me?
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-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jumperconway 0]

Grant,
I am sure that the personal liability in my home owners policy would cover me outside my domain. I don't think that me falling intensionaly out of a plane with a parachute falls under "acts of God".

[RippedCord 0]

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...I can not even find where in a homeowners policy, this type of coverage might be applicable, or afforded.

Section II of any of the basic ISO policies provides Personal Liability coverage: "If a claim is made or a suit is brought against an 'insured' for damages because of 'bodily injury' or 'property damage' caused by an 'occurrence' to which this coverage applies, we will pay up to our limit of liabilty for the damages for which an 'insured' is legally liable."

Now, that is the insuring clause which is very broad and is followed by a set of exclusions (as opposed to Section I which covers only certain named perils). One of the standard exclusions is "aircraft liability." And the policy will read "This policy does not cover 'aircraft liability.'" You then need to go to the definitions section which says this is liability for 'bodily injury' or 'property damage' arising out of the "Maintenance, occupancy, operation, use, loading or unloading of such vehicle or craft by any person."

OK...that's personal liability from a usual homeowners form. The poll above actually addresses "excess liability" which usually refers to an umbrella coverage over one's personal auto and homeowner's liabilty coverages, and you'd need to check that policy to see if it "drops down" to cover liability from occurrences excluded by the primary policies.

[RippedCord 0]

p.s. It's "y'all's."

AMDG

[Scrumpot 1]

Thanks ripped, for all of the clarifications! An actuary, eh? ...EEK, you people give me the willies!

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(from your exlusions section relative to aircraft related excl's) "...unloading of such vehicle or craft by any person"

Opinion... Do you think it conceivable that the act of skydiving could therefore be considered an "exclusion" as being considered an act of unloading such vehicle? Seriously. I've seen wackier determinations made!

And Conway, as to the "act of god" potential exclusion... Perhaps your voluntary and own personal deliberate decision to throw your own self bodily from an aircraft may not be. However, those winds that "blew you off course" (etc.) most certainly may be! Word to the wise under any claim scenario placed under such incident ...be very careful of the actual cause (and verbiage) being listed accordingly!

Thanks Y'all's!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[RippedCord 0]

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Opinion... Do you think it conceivable that the act of skydiving could therefore be considered an "exclusion" as being considered an act of unloading such vehicle?

Well, skydiving definitely involves the occupancy or use of an aircraft. It is excluded.

If your agent tells you differently, get that in writing so that when you get sued you can pass the suit's damages onto his Errors & Omissions liability carrier if your claim is denied by your homeowners carrier.

AMDG

[jumperconway 0]

I was wrong and believe that most policies have a similarly worded exclusion.

It is excluded per my policy,
Quote;
bodily injury or property damage arising out of ownership, maintenance, operation, use, loading or unloading of aircraft.

Aircraft means any device used or designed for flight, except model or hobby aircraft not used or designed to carry people or cargo

[Scrumpot 1]

EEK! ...Not good.

So again, how many people do you think may have been under similar mis-impressions??

Thank you Conway for sharing! ...This is a prime example, as I don't think it would be unfair to say that up until right now, you yourself were also "pretty sure" too, weren't you???

This is precisely what I feared.
Like I say now: EEK!

Thank y'all's for all y'all's clarifications.
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jumperconway 0]

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EEK! ...Not good.

NO SHIT!

So again, how many people do you think may have been under similar mis-impressions??

99%!

Thank you Conway for sharing! ...This is a prime example, as I don't think it would be unfair to say that up until right now, you yourself were also "pretty sure" too, weren't you???

Damn sure

This is precisely what I feared.
Like I say now: EEK!

Thank y'all's for all y'all's clarifications.

Damn it, Thank all y'all for your clarifications.


-Grant