billvon 3,111 #1 January 27, 2004 Sunday After the excitement of Saturday's demo we spent most of Sunday traveling. We left from the hotel in Bangkok early in the morning on yet another set of buses, where we spent about three hours on the road. It would have been even longer if not for the police escort, to whom the other users of the road (trucks, tuk-tuks, scooters, cars and dogs) paid occasional attention. Orders from police officers seem to carry all the force of a mild suggestion, and I was amazed at the number of scooters who drove behind reversing buses despite both police commands and common sense. After lunch in a national park we finally arrived at Air Wing 1, a large air base just outside the city of Korat (or Nakhon Ratchasima.) We spent about an hour listening to welcome speeches from various base officials, including one funny presentation that started talking about flightline safety and ended mentioning golf course hours and haircut prices. Then it was off to the next hotel, a big rambling thing with sporadic hot water and stingy key policies (one key per room, period.) Monday Monday morning we spent about an hour in the briefing room at the airbase going over details of the upcoming dives. Someone had done a very slick 3D animation of what the dive should look like as it comes together. I was a little skeptical as to whether we'd match the organization and uniformity of the little computerized skydivers in the animation, but it was fun to watch. We then headed off to the airport itself. The area we were using consisted of a bunch of tents for the different sectors, a big open lot where food and beer vendors were set up, and a cinderblock building that we would use for debriefs, video editing, gear storage etc. The four C-130's were parked on the tarmac just beyond the tents. The plan for the day was to split into "practice" teams, with three teams practicing wackers and a fourth team practicing the base. Since I was on the outer ring of the base, I ended up on the base practice team instead of with my sector (sector 2.) This was great for me - I'd get to do some diving out of one of the stretch C-130's while getting used to the 'picture.' Apparently C-130's come in a stretch flavor. These are even larger than regular C-130's; what we liked about them was that they had more seating area along each side. With 100 people in our plane we weren't too crowded. To alleviate weight and balance issues during exit the Thais has loaded 1200 pounds of rice in the front of the aircraft; the late divers used the pile like a big couch. All four aircraft were equipped with oxygen systems, and we used them on all dives. We went to between 18 and 21,000 feet on the dives I was on, and the oxygen system worked pretty well. The system looks odd; it's basically an O2 hose with individual regulators all cable-tied to two long cables extending the length of the cabin. The nice thing about this arrangement is that the entire system can slide towards the door as we line up for exit, so we can stay on oxygen until the last few seconds. We made 3 jumps before we called it a day. Most of the wackers were coming close to completion, and the base was improving - we were building to 65-68 out of 72. That night the governor of Korat had a dinner for us on the base, and the entire team (including support staff, pilots etc) showed up for a few hours of live music and cultural stuff. Was fun but I was tired after running around all day. On the bus ride back, Brenda K told me that she was suprised she wasn't exhausted after jumping all day and being up for 17 hours; about ten seconds later she was asleep in her seat. Tuesday The original plan for Tuesday was to go to 200-way dives, but BJ decided to spend another day on the 100-ways. The base got progressively faster and faster, until we were doing around 120 and Tony seemed happy. Our sector-2 lines were doing fine, but a few people had trouble with fall rates at both extremes (i.e. some went low, some struggled to stay down with it.) On one dive we had a bit of a scare. Ann (two people in front of me in our exit lineup) stood up and left her pilot chute in the webbing of the chair. Several of us grabbed her, and one of the italians wadded up her pilot chute, stuffed it back in her pouch and checked her main pin, all in the 30 seconds or so that we had to get into exit lineup position. I figured she'd either end up with a good opening or a total, and at least a total is one of the cleaner malfunctions to have. She ended up having no problems. We had a few injuries. One dislocated shoulder on exit; he had to land with no flare. Another broken ankle from landing off. Spots were mostly good, with only one spectacularly bad spot that put an entire 100-way off the airport. Tomorrow we go to 200-ways after an early morning briefing in the auditorium. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #2 January 27, 2004 Some pictures: Me at breakoff; good shot of Korat airbase in the background Me in my slot during a base practice (hey, Bob's docking on me, so I end up in all his video) Our police escort for our bus caravan Chaos on a C130 exit The palace and landing area for the Bangkok demo (672 people!) A dinner in honor of us in Korat View from my perspective just before landing in Bangkok (base practice video courtesy of Bob H) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #3 January 27, 2004 nice pics... you can see other pics on www.epco.aero/thailande this is andreas (Knabe) 's site---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #4 January 27, 2004 Quote(hey, Bob's docking on me, so I end up in all his video) Hey, we're going to have to change your name to video whore. Thanks for the update and pictures. Looks like a wonderful place to visit and see the culture. Be safe. (heck, what am I thinking, Bill is "Mr. Safety")May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #5 January 27, 2004 Thanks for the updates Bill, keep em comin. We're all pulling for you guys! -Kramer The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThighMan 5 #6 January 27, 2004 Thank you again for the updates and kick the record in the a$$. Be safe and have fun.Airborne Blue Skies, No Wind Feet and Knees Together Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amanda965 0 #8 January 27, 2004 Good luck to everyone. I was just wondering... why are things like this held in Thailand so often? Is there any special reason?Blue skies and SAFE landings! ~Amanda~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #9 January 27, 2004 QuoteGood luck to everyone. I was just wondering... why are things like this held in Thailand so often? Is there any special reason? I'm sure some one will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember, it has something to do with the King's/Queen's B.day. Plus the military aircraft used I think is donated, or not as expensive as here in the United States. Plus, it's very hard to get permission for non-military people to jump from military aircraft here in the United States. Also, lack of larger aircraft here in the United States. I can't remember how many Otters and Skyvans were used for the 300 way, but it was as many as they could get their hands on.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #10 January 27, 2004 Maybe big 130s ?Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foxyroxtail 0 #11 January 28, 2004 Quote On the bus ride back, Brenda K told me that she was suprised she wasn't exhausted after jumping all day and being up for 17 hours; about ten seconds later she was asleep in her seat. Yes - that's our gal.. Bill - tell her the Thanksgiving crowd is glad to see her holding true to form, even on the other side of the globe. Go get the Big One!! Pam ________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #12 January 28, 2004 The military doesn't want to compete with private businesses. C-130's are available for hire, they are not exclusively military, but they are very expensive (about $60 at WFFC). If you operated a air cargo company that could supply such an airplane, you wouldn't like it if the air force was your competition for business. So along comes Thailand, willing to do it for tourism and their air force can consider it part of their normal training flight hours. edit-you know, with the record growing so quickly, that means more slots, more opportunity to be a part of such an attempt! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #13 January 28, 2004 What exactly are the rules for a mass freefall jump? Does that mean that everyone must be in freefall (no canopies) at the same moment within a certain radius of airspace? Or intention to land at the same dropzone? But no rules about maintaining contact with each other?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #14 January 28, 2004 QuoteGood luck to everyone. I was just wondering... why are things like this held in Thailand so often? Is there any special reason? 1st reason : this year is the 72nd B-day of the Queen, the queen being the most important person, with the king, and 72 being a very important number in Thailand (this is why 672 in mass jump, 372 in formation) (last time was 572 and 272 for the 72nd bday of the king) 2nd reason : much cheaper than in the US ! 3rd reason : big airlift with the C130's 4th reason : big support from thai government and sponsors due to 1st reason---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #15 January 28, 2004 wow - to think that we may be limited beyond a 400 way just because of lack of lift power!_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 January 28, 2004 Not really. There were a lot of planes not used for the Eloy 300 ways's that could have. None of CSS's Casa's or Otters were pulled in, Deland had a Skyvan sitting around as did Perris. Right there is the lift capaisity for another 190 jumpers. Plus CA1, the C130 that WFFC uses is still availble for lease if the price is right. Thats 100 people in that one alone.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #17 January 28, 2004 "to think that we may be limited beyond a 400 way just because of lack of lift power! " I reckon altitude and formation build time will, and always has limited the big ones. I don't know for sure but am pretty certain that exit heights much above 25k will be impractical, above that bail out O2 might be necessary. A few peeps on the last Thailand bash were complaining of hypoxia (anoxia?) effects with exit altitudes approaching 25k. Dunno, anyone else have any thoughts on limiting factors? Landing space? Safe break off heights? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #18 January 29, 2004 Well i guess we - skydivers, will just have to get better to make biger ways than 400-way "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #19 January 29, 2004 Primary limitation is O2 saturation times. Bailout oxygen can get around that problem. High altitude gear problems are another issue; helmet visors freeze over and canopies blow up when you deploy them inadvertantly at 30K. Breakoffs can always start higher and landing areas can always get bigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #20 January 29, 2004 >What exactly are the rules for a mass freefall jump? It's not an official FAI record, so no hard and fast rules. I believe people from the first load were landing well before the last aircraft exited. (6 minute separation between aircraft.) We'll never beat any mass jump records given the number of paratroopers exiting over places like Normandy, so we went with mass freefall jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #21 January 29, 2004 >this is why 672 in mass jump . . . It's also the 6th cycle in the 12-year Thai calendar cycle, hence the 6 part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #22 January 29, 2004 Quotewow - to think that we may be limited beyond a 400 way just because of lack of lift power! If you realy need it, the capability is available. An Il-76 (similar to the US C-141) can hold 250 jumpers. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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