jlmiracle 7 #1 February 5, 2004 Does it irratate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment to what seems like a very large amount of people, and make the rest of us pay for it when we PURCHASE new equipment. I have no problem with them sponsoring 1 RW team, 1 Freefly, etc. but its seems like every tom, dick and harry are "sponsored". Who is picking up bill? Maybe if they cut down on the freebees, the rest of us wouldn't have to pay so much. Just a thought. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #2 February 5, 2004 you don't get freebies ??? depends on what you purchase, but it's normal to get "some" stuff for free when you spend large amounts of money, don't you think so ???---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #3 February 5, 2004 Quoteyou don't get freebies ??? depends on what you purchase, but it's normal to get "some" stuff for free when you spend large amounts of money, don't you think so ??? Oh yeah, I usually get a free pull-up cord with each purchase. My bad JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #4 February 5, 2004 when purchasing my icarus t-shirt, shorts, badge, sticker etc..., I told the guy it was my birthday, and he offered me a brand new Saphire2 139 ---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #5 February 5, 2004 Don't forget the advertising... a full color ad on the back of Parachutist is about $850 per ad. Inside full pages are about $600. Some one is paying half a rig each month to have that back cover. Look at the advertising of the top rigs, then look at their prices. Mirage advertises everywhere - expensive rigs. Same with Sunpath. Wing's usually run's 1/4 page ads. Infinity only has like one or two small ads I've seen recently... their rigs are a bit less costly. There has'nt been one bit of advertizing in a magazine that has ever pursuaded me to buy that piece of equipment. I'd rather look the item over in person then make the decision. Color full page ads are wasted on me.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #6 February 5, 2004 post deleted at poster's request ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapper4mpi 0 #7 February 5, 2004 I see your point, however, one could argue that the more people sponsored (within reason), that the more exposure the brand gets. The more exposure, in theory, the more sales, which in turn, lead to larger production quantities, which lead to lower production costs per peice, which in theory relates to lower costs to the consumer. I also think that most businesses make sponsorship a part of total business equation. They do have limits, but I have no problem with someone earning their right to sponsorship. So I guess to answer your question...I do not have a problem with people getting sponsorship for their efforts. -Rap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 February 5, 2004 QuoteIn all seriousness, though, I think one of the reasons George was so generous after the Elsinore fire is his desire to have limited assets on hand should the assets of his business fall into new ownership. WTF?! Someone does something nice, and you question his motives and drag his ass into the mud. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #9 February 5, 2004 QuoteI got several free pull-up cords with my new rig. If it will make you feel better, I'll let you use one this weekend. In all seriousness, though, I think one of the reasons George was so generous after the Elsinore fire is his desire to have limited assets on hand should the assets of his business fall into new ownership. Brent Now the Elsinore fire was different than all these sponsored people. I can't state for fact, but would be willing to bet most, if not all, had paid for the burnt up rig originally. Thanks for the offer on the pull up cords, but I will just continue to use my shoe string. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #10 February 5, 2004 I wonder if some of it has to do with the fact that there really isn't a large amount of people buying new containers when you look at the size of the skydiving community and the amount of resales of used equipment in the industry. In addition, once people do buy something new, I think they tend to hang onto it for awhile.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #11 February 5, 2004 QuoteI see your point, however, one could argue that the more people sponsored (within reason), that the more exposure the brand gets. The more exposure, in theory, the more sales, which in turn, lead to larger production quantities, which lead to lower production costs per peice, which in theory relates to lower costs to the consumer. I also think that most businesses make sponsorship a part of total business equation. They do have limits, but I have no problem with someone earning their right to sponsorship. So I guess to answer your question...I do not have a problem with people getting sponsorship for their efforts. -Rap It's a great theory, if it really applied to skydiving. The instructors at a dz will have more impact on what the new jumper buy than just (don't mean anything bad by "just) a fun jumper. Well, at least that's my theory. And most manufactures will give you a discount if you order 4 identical rigs - or at least same colors for staff, but that is not always feasible and doable for 4 staff at the same time. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #12 February 5, 2004 QuoteDoes it irrate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment to what seems like a very large amount of people, and make the rest of us pay for it when we PURCHASE new equipment. I have no problem with them sponsoring 1 RW team, 1 Freefly, etc. but its seems like every tom, dick and harry are "sponsored". Who is picking up bill? Maybe if they cut down on the freebees, the rest of us wouldn't have to pay so much. Just a thought. Judy One of the greatest quotes i heard in Eloy, "You buy your own gear and you pay for it once, you get sponsored gear and you pay for it every day." MM Nothing in life is FREE. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #13 February 5, 2004 Curious what you're talking about Judy. Deguello 8way/16way,parenial nationals medal team from Spaceland is sponsored as a team with Sun Path but only on a discount basis. Same with Bev suits I believe. Pictures of them are in Parachutst seems every year. I think only the top of the top get true freebie sponsorship.IMHO it's just advertising fund. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #14 February 5, 2004 Also keep in mind that most of the people who are sponsored have spent TONS of money over the years getting to the point where they are now good enough to be sponsored. Many sponsorship packages do not include ownership of the item. For example if I have a sponsored canopy and I don't live up to my end of the sponsorship agreement then the company can take the canopy back and leave me with nothing.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #15 February 5, 2004 Quote One of the greatest quotes i heard in Eloy, "You buy your own gear and you pay for it once, you get sponsored gear and you pay for it every day." MM Nothing in life is FREE. Please elaborate on what they do EVERY DAY, that they are "paying" for their gear. I'm dying to know. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #16 February 5, 2004 Well, rig prices have gone up and if you look at some of the website, you will see ALL their sponsored teams. Alot of people are getting stuff for free, or at the expense of the rest of us. Now if you are ordering as many rigs a Deguello needs, they should get a discount. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #17 February 5, 2004 QuoteAlso keep in mind that most of the people who are sponsored have spent TONS of money over the years getting to the point where they are now good enough to be sponsored. Many sponsorship packages do not include ownership of the item. For example if I have a sponsored canopy and I don't live up to my end of the sponsorship agreement then the company can take the canopy back and leave me with nothing. I've spent TONS of money too. How much will the company get out of that used canopy when you are done with it? I took this off one of the manufactures's websites on sponsorship. I have changed the name of of manufacturer because I'm not pointing fingers in this thread. ______________________________________ Members receive 1-2 XYZ harness/container systems at no charge. Harness/container systems remain the property of XYZ until the completion of the sponsorship period. Upon completion of the sponsorship period, ownership will be relinquished to the team member. The team member may then do as they see fit with the containers. In addition to the container(s), some XYZ merchandise (clothing, stickers, etc.) will be provided to the member. Qualifications: The minimum requirement for application is 1000 jumps and 2 years in the sport. Please remember that these are the bare minimums. XYZ is looking for individuals who will best represent XYZ and it's products. All applications subject to approval. _______________________________ JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #18 February 5, 2004 QuotePlease elaborate on what they do EVERY DAY, that they are "paying" for their gear. I'm dying to know. Judy "every day" was the quote, they may not literally do things for the manufacturer "every day" But simple things like not getting paid for advertisemets, demos, etc. Attending functions, and trade shows to market wares, etc. are things that come along with sponsorships. And remember, like conway said, very few of them are FULL sponsorships. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #19 February 5, 2004 >>WTF?! Someone does something nice, and you question his motives and drag his ass into the mud.<< I didn't realize I was doing that, so let me try to backpedal a little. I agree that it is very nice. He is doing an awesome thing for members of the skydiving community that got hit hard and need help. I did not intend to take anything away from his philanthropy here. I understand that if he had offered to sell them canopies for $200 each, he would have $200 more per canopy than he is getting now, and we would have all still been impressed at his generosity. My real point is that we have to consider Precision a company in financial distress right now, and sometimes companies in financial distress do things that they might not do otherwise. The only hint I was dropping is that George might be trying to keep his company's assets in the skydiving community rather than letting some plaintiff's lawyer have them. I honestly hope it never comes to that. Anyway, if your perception is that I was dragging George's ass in the mud, then I apologize both to George and to you. That was not my intent, and if the bulk of the readers of my post take it the way you did, then I will be ashamed of myself. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 February 5, 2004 Quotevery few of them are FULL sponsorships. Right. If you know anything about sponsership programs in Skydiving, there are different levels of sponsership. For instance, PD starts off at something like 35% off for a sponsered person. All the way up to free (but you don't get to keep the canopy, its PDs they're just letting you have it). Its the same with other manufactures as well. The market isn't big enough to have a lot of fully sponsered teams running around, the market can't afford that.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #21 February 5, 2004 QuoteQuotevery few of them are FULL sponsorships. Right. If you know anything about sponsership programs in Skydiving, there are different levels of sponsership. For instance, PD starts off at something like 35% off for a sponsered person. All the way up to free (but you don't get to keep the canopy, its PDs they're just letting you have it). Its the same with other manufactures as well. The market isn't big enough to have a lot of fully sponsered teams running around, the market can't afford that.[url] Sorry Dave - took this off a manufactures website - i change the name to XYZ. Yeah, alot of it is FREE, I did research it. Members receive 1-2 XYZ harness/container systems at no charge. Harness/container systems remain the property of XYZ until the completion of the sponsorship period. Upon completion of the sponsorship period, ownership will be relinquished to the team member. The team XYZ merchandise (clothing, stickers, etc.) will be provided to the member. Qualifications: The minimum requirement for application is1000 jumps and 2 years in the sport. Please remember that these are the bare minimums. XYZ is looking for individuals who will best represent XYZ Systems and it's products. All applications subject to approval. ________________________Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 February 5, 2004 QuoteSorry Dave - took this off a manufactures website - i change the name to XYZ. Yeah, alot of it is FREE, I did research it. *shrug* Well, I guess since I've only really chatted with people I know in the larger manufacturing shops, I didn't cover everyone. It sounds like you're not including everyone as well, since I've looked into it as well and have information contrary to yours. Why change the name in your post, if its on their site, who cares?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #23 February 5, 2004 Quote(but you don't get to keep the canopy, its PDs they're just letting you have it). Depending on the sponsorship deal you have worked out sometimes it belongs to PD somoetimes it belongs to you. I bought a sponsored canopy off of a sponsored jumper. If the canopy was owned by the manufacturer the jumper would not have been allowed to sell it to me.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #24 February 5, 2004 such is life. guess i'll just have to bust my ass to get good enough to receive freebies myself. Pbt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #25 February 5, 2004 Quote Why change the name in your post, if its on their site, who cares? Because I don't want to turn this into a my rig/canopy is better than yours, because its all a matter of personal preference. Some companies have better (more fair to the average jumper) sponsorship progams than others. Judy JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
