Who is picking up the bill?

[NeedToJump 0]

To directly answer your questions:

Quote

Does it irrate anyone else...

No, this does not irritate me in the least.

Quote

Who is picking up bill?

Everyone who pays for their products. We are also picking up the bill for the manufacturers' rent, their office supplies, the paid vacation time of the employees on salary. We are paying for every one of their expenses including advertising. Part of their advertising is paying other people to use their equipment - sponsorship. This is a normal part of business practices and exists in every business. In order for people to buy your product they first have to know about it.

edited for spelling

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[jumperconway 0]

Quote

Well, rig prices have gone up and if you look at some of the website, you will see ALL their sponsored teams. Alot of people are getting stuff for free, or at the expense of the rest of us. Now if you are ordering as many rigs a Deguello needs, they should get a discount.

Judy

I believe if they sell you a rig at say 40% off, you are sponsored and give them the right to list you as a sponsored team. Pretty sure that Deguello is listed on Sun Path's website as a sponsored team, or at least they were.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Because I don't want to turn this into a my rig/canopy is better than yours, because its all a matter of personal preference.

That doesn't happen very often, people are generally pretty open minded/fair when talking not about the gear, but about the practices of manufactures. Its only when people perceive something that not there in a discussion, that people tend to start making it into a "mine or yours" fight.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Sponsorship is not a "reward" that companies dole out to their buddies; it is a marketing tool that they use in order to get their name and face out to the masses in an effort to sell more parachutes. While you may see what you deem to be an inordinate amount of sponsored athletes on championship teams in parachutist magazine and at major dropzones, there are just as many people "in the trenches." Manufacturers try hard to get the word out about their equipment. They try to outfit people who do a great deal of traveling and have a love of the product and an understanding of what makes it good. They try to pair their equipment up with the types of people who will best represent their product out in the field. They sponsor people with good reputations and positive outlooks on the sport and industry; people who have "been there and done that." The larger companies obviously have larger advertising budgets which they spend in what they believe is their best effort in maintaining and/or gaining market share. Seeing me with a logoed Sabre2 over my head at boogies all around the country makes for a good billboard. I am incredibly proud of my achievements in this sport and am lucky that I have a good name from them. My sponsors feel the same, and for that I am extremely grateful. I do everything I can for them because I believe in their products. I don't have any "freebie" anything; I take my sponsorships seriously.

Chuck

[bbarnhouse 0]

Thanks Chuck...I couldn't have said it any better than that.
B2

[jlmiracle 7]

SkymonkeyOne,

Yes, but not all those people that are sponsored have "paid" their dues, or even earned their freebie, from what I've seen. I've never ever seen a "sponsored" rig and thought, I need to get one of those. Is is really more cost effective for the manufactures to give alot of stuff away and hope it is properly marketed, or for them to show up at a dropzone near you?

From what I've seen, instructors have the biggest impact on what new jumpers buy.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Judy,
My first sponsored container was a 50% wings which I got as a result of being an active instructor at the GBSPC on Fort Bragg in around 2000. There are plenty of opportunities like that in the sport, you just have to catch them. Yes, sponsoring current instructors and schools is a fantastic way to promote products.

[Ron 10]

Quote

Yes, but not all those people that are sponsored have "paid" their dues

Based on what?

Quote

I've never ever seen a "sponsored" rig and thought, I need to get one of those.

Maybe you have not, but people do...In NASCAR...What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.

Quote

From what I've seen, instructors have the biggest impact on what new jumpers buy.

Yep, but what about after they have their first rig?

Why are you pissed anyway? Could not get a free rig?

Here is some funny stuff for ya....

http://www.tonysuits.com/

If you look at the top left pic in the frame right above the (Company button), and the pic http://www.tonysuits.com/fabric.php4

Thats me in the Red/White/Blue MICHIGAN suit...On a Tony suit website...Man that kills me.

Also look at last mths parachutist....I don't know what page, but it is a picture of Dericks 8 way team...Its labled "Bring in the Riggers" or something like that...Derick Thomas, owner of Sunpath and "his team"...notice the one guy with the Vector? Yeah, Bill and Mike are getting something out of that.

Man thats funny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

Judy,
My first sponsored container was a 50% wings which I got as a result of being an active instructor at the GBSPC on Fort Bragg in around 2000. There are plenty of opportunities like that in the sport, you just have to catch them. Yes, sponsoring current instructors and schools is a fantastic way to promote products.

Chuck I'm not talking about the 40/50 off rigs. I'm talking about here ya go. When we say you are done, you can keep it.

Most of the staff rig progams want you to order like 4 rigs and all the same or similar colors. Trying to get 4 staff members to order at the same time wanting the same colors, is pretty difficult. Financial timing is a toughy.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

Quote

Yes, but not all those people that are sponsored have "paid" their dues

Based on what?

Quote

I've never ever seen a "sponsored" rig and thought, I need to get one of those.

Maybe you have not, but people do...In NASCAR...What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.

Quote

From what I've seen, instructors have the biggest impact on what new jumpers buy.

Yep, but what about after they have their first rig?

Why are you pissed anyway? Could not get a free rig?

Here is some funny stuff for ya....

http://www.tonysuits.com/

If you look at the top left pic in the frame right above the (Company button), and the pic http://www.tonysuits.com/fabric.php4

Thats me in the Red/White/Blue MICHIGAN suit...On a Tony suit website...Man that kills me.

Also look at last mths parachutist....I don't know what page, but it is a picture of Dericks 8 way team...Its labled "Bring in the Riggers" or something like that...Derick Thomas, owner of Sunpath and "his team"...notice the one guy with the Vector? Yeah, Bill and Mike are getting something out of that.

I've never asked for a FREE rig and can't imagine why I would, unless I was joking.

Now the rest of your reply is a perfect response, other examples of other companies (note to self; done giving Ron compliments for the year). The pictures that you stated, did anyone complain or feel belittled?

Why am I so pissed off over all this, because of somone's political view, who is sponosored by Mirages, decides to pick apart another company over simple advertisement. There are website and advertisements all the time that post pictures that aren't theres, have nothing to do with them, etc. It's just funny how a mirage sponsored jumper to state his political view.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

There are website and advertisements all the time that post pictures that aren't theres

This is quite true and in some instances consitutes theft of copywrited material. But that...is another story.

[amy 0]

You are absolutely right that money from your rig purchase is paying for these sponsorships, Judy. What JP said is also true - manufacturers lookat that as part of their advertising budget.

I think that if it bothers you to pay for these sponsored teams, you should buy gear from a manufacturer that doesn't sponsor anyone (they are out there), or who has a sponsorship policy that you agree with (AFAIK, there are some who don't give gear away, but offer a deep discount to their teams). In a capitalist system, voting with your wallet is the most effective way to voice your opinion.

Just my $.02

Amy

[jlmiracle 7]

Amy, you make perfect sense. Thank you for your reply. I just get a bug up my ass every once in a while because skydiving is getting so commercialized with all these sponored teams, and other things not related to this thread. I feel helpless about all this happening and, for me, it sucks the life out of the "fun" aspect of this sport.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[mnischalke 0]

And now, the rest of the story...

Quote

Why am I so pissed off over all this, because of somone's political view, who is sponosored by Mirages, decides to pick apart another company over simple advertisement. There are website and advertisements all the time that post pictures that aren't theres, have nothing to do with them, etc. It's just funny how a mirage sponsored jumper to state his political view.

Whaaah. Get a grip, girly. The jumper you're talking about is the 7th-place swooper in the world. Was Mirage/Performace Designs right to give him a full ride for gear? You are damn right, in my opinion. He is a college student who has spent almost everything he had to practice his ass off and to get to swoop meets around the country to compete. He looked like a mountainbiker at a road race, among all the sponsored jumpers. Funny thing, he'd beat them. Now, he's sponsored, and I personally don't think the Mirage team could have sponsored a better swooper/representative/instructor/mentor.

So he's pissed about being part of an ad for a completely different company than who he's sponsored by, and rightfully so. I don't know you, but let's say you are not a lesbian, but the Lesbian's Alliance of America catch a photo of you with a lesbian friend at a tea party and use it in an ad about how happy lesbians are at tea parties. Ya think you'd be a little upset? If you were straight before, you sure as hell are gay to everyone who sees the ad.

The photograph in question happened. It's not a fake. It is just being used in a way that misrepresents the truth. Everyone in that photo is NOT sponsored by Sunpath. To the casual reader, they ARE.

In what way did this swooper pick apart another company other than to point out his issue with it's misrepresentation in an ad? He later said who he is sponsored with and that he loves the gear of his sponsor (which he'd been jumping before he got the sponsorship, btw). Did he say anything about Sunpath? its delivery time? its craftsmanship? its design flaws? I didn't see any of that.

Remember that sponsorship is part of advertising and it happens in every industry within a free-market economic system. So, the next time you go buy a Chevy, be sure to bitch to the dealer about Dale Jr. and how you pay for him to drive a new Corvette.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Remember that sponsorship is part of advertising and it happens in every industry within a free-market economic system. So, the next time you go buy a Chevy, be sure to bitch to the dealer about Dale Jr. and how you pay for him to drive a new Corvette.
mike

And those folks loose their contract/get fired/possibly sued if they're caught drinking a Pepsi/near a Pepsi (if they're sponsered by Coke, for instance).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[scottjaco 0]

Quote

For example if I have a sponsored canopy and I don't live up to my end of the sponsorship agreement then the company can take the canopy back and leave me with nothing.

Most sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody.

Has anybody here (who has been sponsored) been asked to give back their gear?

Are they gonna hunt you down if you refuse?

[jlmiracle 7]

You replied to the wrong thread. Your reply goes in the ad thread. Mirage is not the only one that gives away their fair of rigs.

but your reply was read and is being taken into consideration.

All ya all have jumped my ass about this but, its OKAY for this guy to whine about a little picture. I guess for now on Javelin and other manufacturers who use misc pictures are going to have to black out or cross out the people in the photos that don't jump their product. Would that make everyone happy. I sure would notice the ad more if they started crossing people out of the picture.

I don't ever look at an ad and decide off that add that I'm going to buy that rig, nor do I look at what the super swoopers or top teams are jumping because I know they are going jump whatever is given to them. ( this reply should go in the other thread). It just ridiculous to get that upset over that picture.

as far as the lesbo thing in relation to the US team picture, 2 totally different things. The lesbo thing, to me, would be funny, cause I don't care what people think, I'm married to a man. The comparison you made between a fictious me and that picture, is it sure seems like he is not very proud of being on the US team, his concern was what rig people might think he fly. Well, guess what, I don't care what rig you jump. What you jump or he jumps or other US team members jump is not a factor to me when buying a rig. Jumping whatever airspeed jumps isn't going to make me better skydiver.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[NeedToJump 0]

Quote

Most sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody.

Has anybody here (who has been sponsored) been asked to give back their gear?

I don't know if it is exactly what you are asking but PD had a lot of their sponsored jumpers jumping the Katanas (as well as PD's own test jumpers) and has asked for those back.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[EDYDO 0]

Quote

Does it irratate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment to what seems like a very large amount of people, and make the rest of us pay for it when we PURCHASE new equipment.
____________________________________________________________

It does not bother me, quite the opposite. It is simple economics. I would rather see them advertising in this way rather than spending it on an ad in a magazine. If they advertise in the right way, production will go up and cost per unit will go down, not up.

Ed

• Quote

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

I believe it was someone at PD or someone at RW that sent an article to Parachutist a while back talking about the abundance of sponsorships and why they were cutting back....you have to prove your worth as why they should sponsor you now (smart move). Once you are sponsored, that company will be keeping an eye out for you and how much free press you can drum up for them.

The only fully sponsored people I have ever met are the biggest names in this sport - they get around and draw attention to themselves. Alchemy, Airspeed, PD Factory Team, FlyBoyz, Team Extreme, Anonmoly, others on the PST, etc....

Everyone else that is "sponsored" gets a discount off their gear...some are allowed to sell gear and can take a cut on the profit. Those that work for a DZ are usually offered a decent cut as well.

Wait around long enough and you can find a sale that will give you as much off as some of those partially sponsored teams.

So what is the big deal?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Most sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody.

Wanna bet?

Quote

Has anybody here (who has been sponsored) been asked to give back their gear?

Most everyone who's been sponsored by SunPath.

Quote

Are they gonna hunt you down if you refuse?

It's a small sport.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mwabd1 0]

I don't look at ads, or who is usings who's gear. Also I agree that these full page ads in parachutist are a waste of money. If you want to sell me a rig, send me a demo.

[dgskydive 0]

Being sponsored myself, I can tell you it isn't like they give it away to everyone. Most people only get a discount. The biggest dsicount most people get is 50% off. Only the real big names get it all for free. I earn my gear for sure. I sell it and promote it all over the place. I would sure rather spend my days off at the DZ just bs'ing and junping with my friends. But instead, I spend a lot of time talking to people about rigs and containers and answering questions and maybe even taking an order. I am not getting paid for it and it cuts into my free time. So at least I get something for the time I put in.
Most gear salesmen or women, don't make shit for money anyway. I chose this job knowing \i wouldn't make a bunch of money, so I am not complaining about the lack of money. Just saying it is nice to get something for working hard.

Dom

[jlmiracle 7]

But you are out actively selling their gear and that's different than some of these others who just jump it. I have never seen one of the big names, ever go out of their way to talk to someone about gear. In fact, most of the time you can't find them.

I'm not saying all sponsorship needs to go away. Most do a good jump with staff programs if you can get a mass order together. I would rather see them give away a rig to a NEW jumper, say through a raffle or drawing then to somone who already has gear.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[mnischalke 0]

Like this?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.