This forum's guidelines are getting fuzzy...

[storm1977 0]

yes I have been here long.....

If you will notice though the other posts allowed to stay here!!!!!

I see selected moving!!!!!!

In fact one just came up about used gear :-) That is strange it hasn't been moved.... I am sure the attention I brought to it though will cause the greenies to take action.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[TomAiello 26]

Hey Chuck,

Quote

PS: I will leave this thread here for a bit, then probably move it to talkback at the end of the day after everyone gets a chance to read it here.

Why not move it to "Suggestions and Feedback" instead? It sounds like it might be relevant (or parts of it might be relevant) there.

Perhaps Sangiro's idea of sub-forums could be implemented here, with a "skydiving related discussions" sub forum?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

I see selected moving!!!!!!

"Selective" moderation (moving, editing, deleting, whatever) is not a sign of bias among moderators. It's a sign of overwork.

Just because something doesn't get moved (or whatever) doesn't mean it's condoned, or that there is a special exception for that person. It just means that no moderator has gotten to that, or judged it important enough to do, yet.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[PhreeZone 20]

There are three people who can modify the posts in this Fourm. 1 of which lives in London, one that lives in CA, and one that lives in GA. They can not be expected to delete posts 24/7 on a 10 minute notice. Things were way out of control in this fourm and needed trimmed back. Stories of graduating AFF and tandems belong in talkback, what canopy questions belong to gear and how do I spot belongs to S&T. This fourm should be used for those topics that are directly related to skydiving but can not be easly broken into one of the other groups. Questions like: How many reserve rides do you have? What are your wind limits, etc belong here.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

Why then are wind tunnel discussions allowed????

If you think tunnel discussion don't belong here, I'd advise you to post in Suggestions and Feedback, and add your voice to the (several) calling for a separate wind tunnel forum.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

I think the rules need changing! Anyone else agree?

Why not post a set of suggested rules changes in the Suggestions forum? That's what it's for.

Edit to add: While I doubt Sangiro has time to read all the threads in this forum, I bet he reads everything in that one.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[pilotdave 0]

That is a good idea, but I'd like to know if I'm alone in my thinking before I actually suggest a policy change. But seriously I just never read that forum so the idea didn't even cross my mind. Thanks!

Dave

[AndyMan 7]

I'd love to know why the "Virginia kills skydiving bill" thread was moved. It seems like a perfect example of what this forums is suposed to be. It also seems very unfortunate that a thread like that would be lost in talkback.

I guess I'm wrong though - so I'll be the first to say: "now I have no idea what this forum is for".

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[BigM 2]

I guess I am not alone in my line of thinking then. The General Discussions forum is my favorite and by far, most visited. I have been very happy with it's content, but I (like others) am confused now. I like the topics posted here and there are very few I would move. It is a fairly peaceful and enjoyable forum. Just a thought.

Blue 111 all, see you in Dublin in about 10 days!
Jeff

"When I die, I want to go like my grandmother, who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car."

[pilotdave 0]

Ok, posted my thoughts to the feedback forum: HERE.

Dave

[crwmike 0]

.com has a few moderators who have trouble separating the need for clear communication from their need to control. I'm guessing it will eventually be the downfall of DZ.com if Willem doesn't intervene.

Michael

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

How many reserve rides do you have?

I don't know, is that related to the "physical act of skydiving"? Or does that belong in S&T?

Quote

What are your wind limits, etc belong here.

Again, that sounds like a S&T topic to me.

So what exactly does belong in this forum?

Edit: I agree with Tom, this should probably be moved to the Suggestions and Feedback forum.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhreeZone 20]

I look at this fourm as an overflow area for topics that are in other fourms currently, but duliute the main purpose of that fourm also. Do we really need to have threads in Gear and Rigging asking about what rig color looks better or should that be a Talkback thread?

In my thinking General should be a slush fourm covering all aspects of skydiving that are not core to the other fourms, but at the same time measures have to be taken to prevent it from becoming Talkback II. There seems to be a need for a fourm guideline set up that covers each fourm and if your topic does'nt fit there it goes here. If the replies here dicate that its a Talkback thread (Comments on the movie Cutaway for example) then move it then.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[sdgregory 0]

Not to sound like a kiss ass or anything, but something just occured to me. I cannot keep up with all the threads going on here. I have to selectively pick and choose even which ones I am going to read, let alone what to post too.

Even then, the titles often have little to do with the topic. There are what, ten moderators on this site?

I could list the ones I know of but somehow I am sure it would be an incomplete list.

My point? Oh yeah,

Even with assigned forums there seems to be too few moderators for the number of posts/threads/members.

We should honestly help them out by just doing what they ask, which is to try to place the threads in the proper place. Obviously, sometimes, we will put threads in the wrong place, but lets not give them a hard time if the thread gets moved.

I know I am probably stating the obvious but when I hit mark all read on a forum and 8 hours later it says 41 new threads, 1337 replies I suddenly realized that our elustrious moderators have a tough task.

So Moderators, for all you do, this [beer of choice] is for you;

IF and when we meet, remind me, I owe you at least one beer. Probably many more.

[flyangel2 2]

Well said. I think the mods have a thankless job, and if they simply move our thread, get over it, and post to it where ever they moved it.

I too owe all you mods a beer. Be sure to remind me the next time I see you.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

Quote

I think the mods have a thankless job, and if they simply move our thread, get over it...

>>I agree. My thread was moved, and rightly so. I did exactly what the sticky says not to do, and posted a thread out of excitement w/o thinking. I was surprised it lasted as long as it did; the way I see it, it shows that the moderators here are doing their jobs. Apologies and Good Work.

[sangiro 26]

Quote

.com has a few moderators who have trouble separating the need for clear communication from their need to control. I'm guessing it will eventually be the downfall of DZ.com if Willem doesn't intervene.

Michael, you're guessing wrong. A handful of moderators who I can "relief of their duties" at any time is way down on my list of things that I would see as possible threats to the longevity of Dropzone.com. I suggest anyone interested in the topic read Clay Shirky's article - A group is its own worst enemy. (thanks John!) It's a great synopsis of why and how online communities fail and succeed. Believe me, I don't take this lightly nor do I sit back and let moderators abuse their privileges and take it wherever they want to. I'm deliberate and quite informed about the decisions I make.

As for moderation levels: I recently looked at a bunch of other successful forums. Emphasis on "successful". Dropzone.com is incredibly under-moderated by comparison to other forums. Take a look at Rockclimbing.com. They have more than 40 moderators! Take a look at their terms of use, which is basically their forum rules.... it's huge! Still it works.

Now take a look at rec.skydiving.....

I also think your statement lacks understanding of what is conducive to "clear communication" online. People still incorrectly assume that no control or almost no moderation is what's good for online communities and results in "clear communication". It's quite the opposite. It may be what's good for individuals (sometimes) but it is simply not what is good for communities in a virtual world characterized by ubiquity and anonymity. If you think so, you're just wrong. You may not like it, but we should not put it forward as the working model if years of experience on the internet has proven it to be fatally flawed on many levels. Again, take a look at the article mentioned above.

We will continue to keep moderation light on Dropzone.com to keep the conversations and exchange of ideas free. We will also continue to make decisions that I know will sometimes prove to be individually unpopular but healthy for the community.

Let's talk about skydiving!

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[storm1977 0]

... Not to Kiss ASS, but I think you are right HH... WE are not over policed, however, I think there are a lot of gray areas in "General Skydiving".

WE all know that the "GS" forum gets the most attention and the most visits (other thatn Talkback) So, when we have a question pertaining to the sport of skydiving, it is a great place to post bnecause we know we will get a lot of hits and responses.

Personally I don't really go to Gear and rigging unless I have a specific question.... I am sure that is true with many people, and therefore not many people will respond to a question I post there.

I understand where you guys/girls are coming from... I don't want to see "GS" become a Talkback II either. I just personally feel that if we have a question about the sport of skydiving we should be able to put it in "GS".

Example: I get cold hands when I jump, and I am looking for a good pair of gloves...Anyone else have this issue?

Does that need to go to Gear and Rigging?

it is a general question related to the act of skydiving.... It is a hybrid.

Feedback...


Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[crwmike 0]

Calm down dude. I'm not saying your baby is ugly.

Our views are different. My view and concerns center around skydiving and skydivers talking to other skydivers. Your view is the success of a forum. Not mutually exclusive views but not a smooth fit either.

I participate in several moderated professional groups. The difference here is your moderators are among the most active participants and a bit too emotionally involved.. I recently read some scathing personal attacks (by moderators) toward someone who posted a piece of drivel about the appropriateness of a dive you were on.

I appreciate moderators who can separate their personal involvement and work for the good of the group. You have a few, however, who are working for their own benefit.

That's the way it is, brother. Listen ...or not.

Peace,

Michael

Quote

Michael, you're guessing wrong. A handful of moderators who I can "relief of their duties" at any time is way down on my list of things that I would see as possible threats to the longevity of Dropzone.com. I suggest anyone interested in the topic read Clay Shirky's article - A group is its own worst enemy. (thanks John!) It's a great synopsis of why and how online communities fail and succeed. Believe me, I don't take this lightly nor do I sit back and let moderators abuse their privileges and take it wherever they want to. I'm deliberate and quite informed about the decisions I make.

As for moderation levels: I recently looked at a bunch of other successful forums. Emphasis on "successful". Dropzone.com is incredibly under-moderated by comparison to other forums. Take a look at Rockclimbing.com. They have more than 40 moderators! Take a look at their terms of use, which is basically their forum rules.... it's huge! Still it works.

Now take a look at rec.skydiving.....

I also think your statement lacks understanding of what is conducive to "clear communication" online. People still incorrectly assume that no control or almost no moderation is what's good for online communities and results in "clear communication". It's quite the opposite. It may be what's good for individuals (sometimes) but it is simply not what is good for communities in a virtual world characterized by ubiquity and anonymity. If you think so, you're just wrong. You may not like it, but we should not put it forward as the working model if years of experience on the internet has proven it to be fatally flawed at many levels. Again, take a look at the article mentioned above.

We will continue to keep moderation light on Dropzone.com to keep the conversations and exchange of ideas free. We will also continue to make decisions that I know will prove to be individually unpopular but healthy for the community.

Let's talk about skydiving!

[sdgregory 0]

Thank you for what you do. And yes, let's talk about skydiving.

4 more days to FLORIDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sangiro 26]

Quote

Calm down dude. I'm not saying your baby is ugly.

I know. But I'm saying yours is.

Safe swoops
Sangiro