Jumping while in the military

[napaguy99 0]

I just got settled in to API (the first of many steps in becoming a Naval Aviator) down here in Florida. I came from crappy-weather Ohio to a place where it is sunny and over 70 every day. I got one weekend of jumping in and had a blast at what I thought was going to me my new home DZ.

Well, the powers that be have this policy: any time you get on an airplane you have to take leave, regardless of the mileage traveled. So I went to talk to the guy in charge about that and see if it applies to skydiving. He told me not to skydive. I quote, "We pay you good money to stay in the airplane."

So I'm here for roughly another 3-4 months in great weather with nothing to do right now and I'm not "allowed" to skydive. I would like to hear from others in the military about your command's policy on jumping.

P. S. I think it's funny that when I ran a spell check on this, it didn't recognize the words DZ, skydive, or skydiving. Kinda funny, eh.

"Let the misinterpretation and attacks begin."

[stateofnature 0]

first rule in hearing rules in the military.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW SHIT (when talking outside their area of expertise)

my suggestion: go to the source. find the reg, stop by JAG and check the validity. you have all the resources you need, use um.

[Beerlight 0]

Air Force rules are the same. No jumping while in pilot training. You are currently flying, correct?

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Your commander has the say-so on whether or not members of your command may or may not partake in "high risk" activities while in training. An example of this is the reg covering students in any training at USAJFKSWCS at Fort Bragg and it's outstations (Yuma, Key West). NO student in any course at the Special Warfare Center is permitted to participate in any skydiving or SCUBA diving while on student orders. This is waiverable at the O-6 level, but does not often get granted.

Same rule applies to students in helicopter flight school at Rucker.

[JYorkster 0]

stateofnature is right....Look up the rules for yourself. Many commanders or instructors are just worried that they'll get in trouble if you get hurt and they knew about your jumping. They often just spout off made-up rules to cover their own asses. The Air Force has a High Risk activities briefing to get and sign off. That covers me. After explaining the level of safety, training involved, licenses, ratings, etc, most of my commanders have been supportive. Those that weren't still never told me I couldn't jump after I went to them with the facts.

BTW - I'm a flyer on active duty, been in the USAF 10.5 years, been jumping the last 6.

Rock

[FunBobby 0]

Adam -

First of all, congrats on getting aviation orders. It's a great time of year to be having weekend API class parties on the Key.

I started jumping in 99 during my first fleet tour as an pilot in VS-30. Before going to the DZ, I voiced my interest in starting skydiving to my boss, the squadron Ops O; he told me I had to talk to my CO, who had the Safety O do some research on rules about skydiving. At that time, none of those officers could find any definitive written policy prohibiting me from skydiving. So the decision was left up to the CO; he reluctantly agreed to let me skydive.

Since then, I have cycled through tours serving as an instructor at the Viking Weapons School (O-5 CO), the Viking Wing (O-6 Commodore), a student at Naval Postgraduate School (O-6 CO), the S-3B FRS (O-5/6 CO), and my current billet as a staff member of (and pilot in) Carrier Air Wing 2 (O-6 CAG). During each tour, up front, I told my CO about my skydiving. None of them were particularly thrilled with my hobby, but none of them expressly forbade me from jumping. A few did occassionally make some interested inqiries about how my skydiving was going, especially when I'd point out the DZ as we flew close by (Skydive Palatka, where I learned to jump, lies 35nm south of NAS Jacksonville, and the VFR return route from the bombing ranges takes aircraft within 2 miles of the DZ). One CO even asked about the possibility of jumping with me on a weekend.

I have jumped accumulated over 600 jumps during all those tours. Last year, I brought my rig on deployment with CVW-2 and CV-64, and on the way home after flying in OIF, I got to do some jumps in Australia and Hawaii. I’ve had a great time…I’ve also been very fortunate not to get hurt.

Fleet aviators are valuable assets and they’re not easy to replace. If an aviator gets hurt and is unable to fly for a lengthy period of time, the loss of his/her skills and services as an aviator can have a pretty considerable impact on the squadron and air wing. You’ll understand that more when you get to the fleet and see how things work here. As for me, I knew this, and I understand and pay due respect to the risks involved with my jumping. Truth be told, I get more and more nervous as we near a major deployment and even quit jumping altogether sometime before the last one.

As a student in the TRACOM, you fall under the same rules but a far more stringent mindset. The TRACOM is driven by PTR, and they need to keep turning out winged aviators as efficiently as possible according to the needs of the Navy – which, by the way, is a phrase you will hear more often than you’d like to in your career. The TRACOM environment, too, is far more, ahh, anal, for a lack of a better word, so their official policy on skydiving does not surprise me.

However, I have jumped several times in Elberta, and have made several skydives with folks who were students in API and in primary. Something else: have a look at 4 way team Chikara. Chikara competed in the open class at Nationals last year – gutsy! I knew Kelly (inside center) at USNA; she is Tomcat RIO (with combat experience, I believe) and is a very active skydiver who began her skydiving career in Elberta. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.


What should you take away from this? I don’t know of any upper echelon Navy policy (SECNAV, OPNAV, etc) that specifically prohibits skydiving, so in most cases, whether or not you can skydive will be left to the discretion of your CO. Additionally, you must understand the risks involved with jumping and how getting hurt would impact your unit and your career – and none of that should be taken lightly.

Good Luck.

Bobby R.
LCDR, USN

P.S. Email me or send me a PM if you have more thoughts / comments / questions. Be glad to talk to you and pass on any gouge.


Edited - Damn typo.

[FunBobby 0]

Quote

Many commanders or instructors are just worried that they'll get in trouble if you get hurt and they knew about your jumping. They often just spout off made-up rules to cover their own asses.

That statement worries me a little. I certainly wouldn't want to work for a commander like that, much less grow up to be one myself.

I have discussed skydiving with all of my CO's, and all of them made educated, informed, weighted decisions based on facts, standing policies, the risks of my jumping and the potential impact of losing me to injury or worse. They asked questions about training, proficiency, etc, and the information they garnered from our discussions and the written instructions, documents, etc. that I provided was sufficient to put them at ease enough about my skydiving.

Had I gotten hurt and had someone had to explain that, I am reasonably certain that they would have supported me, explaining to their superiors their rationale for letting me jump. I would have done the same for any of my troops when I had a division of sailors in my charge.

I know that every person who assumes command of any unit is different. I suppose I have been fortunate to have worked for good CO's.

It sounds as if you are less than confident than your leadership. Maybe that's just an Air Farce [sic] thing.

FunBobby

[jb092 0]

I am in the Airforce and my commander doesn't care that I jump. I am not a pilot though When I am on student orders I cant jump and I havent jumped for fear of losing my stripes.

What could possibly go wrong?

[rjf98 0]

FunBobby the LCDR got it right on the money. When I was at TBS they told us me I couldn't jump so I went to see the CO. After learning that I wasn't a student and had been jumping for over a year he signed off and gave me the ok. MOST officers will make an informed decision based on the facts.

While on the MEU I couldn't jump. After getting a no from the BLT commander I decided it wasn't worth going higher for possibly 3 days of jumping on a 6 month cruise.

Bottom line is you can keep taking it up the chain if you want, but you may piss some people off further down the line, and this school will determine the next few years of your life so it might not be worth it.

[CDRINF 1]

I concur with a lot of the above. Based on my 18 yrs of time in the Army I would advise:

1.) Beware the unwritten regs quouted by "experts". There are many "urban legend" regs people will swear are true, yet cannot back up in writing. Tell the alleged expert to show you where the specific prohibition against skydiving is spelled out in regs, or a local policy letter.

2) That said, in a training environment, many military schools have local policies putting restrictions on high risk activities. They are making an investment in you, and don't want the merchandise damaged. So, in your case, such a policy might exsist. If it does, I'm sure you will get formally briefed on it.

3) Once your training is through and you are in normal (if there is such a thing) day to day garrison life, however, your leadership is really on shakey ground if they try to restrict your off duty activities without cause. I know of one Brigade commander who tried to decree that no officers in his brigade were allowed to own or ride motor cycles. That one did not last too long once the IG got wind of it. Your commander cannot forbid you from skydiving anymore than he can forbid you from skiing or golfing.

4) Now, given all of the above, I have learned to not discuss skydiving too much around work. It's hard for most of us to believe when jumping is such a big part of our lives, but no one outside of skydiving takes it seriously. There are just some dinks out there who think people shouldn't be jumping out of airplanes. Also, as Colin Powell once said, "In every organization, if you ask for permission from enough people, you will eventually run into the person who thinks it is his job to tell you 'no'." Personally, I would never have even asked if the policy included skydiving. If you don't want your actions restricted, don't ask!

Interestingly, when I was a young LT, I had a commander who thought my life was too wrapped up in the Army. He once said he was worried about me and wanted to know if I had any hobbies outside of work. When I told him I skydived (we had a club on the post), he responded "Well, that's a military activity." I sat there trying to keep a straight face while thinking "You have obviously never been to a dropzone!"

Good luck and have fun!

LTC Chris Reed
D-15996

[orbitjunkie 0]

It sucks dude,
But as a former 1SG in the army I think it is fair policy that while on student status they restrict certain activities. After all training is an investment and pilot tng must cost a bundle. I still think you should at least ask to see the CMDR and plead your case. Perhaps as one said if you are exp enough you might sway him to make a logical decision. I would not take it further up the chain though. Now if you were on a permant duty station my opinion would differ. I would go to the CMDR myself and say lets restrict all extra cirricular activities or none and help ya fight. But as a student I would agree with cmd..get out of school then you are free to play

[orbitjunkie 0]

mmm...I was a 1SG INF..we were posting at the same time..would have like to meet you sir..good words ( of course too many) Ha Ha

[samyueru 0]

One of the key reasons I'm picking Aviation as my branch choice (fmr army enlisted [MI], now a cadet) is so I'll know other helicopter pilots. That = helicopter jumps!!! Haha, if I can corrupt them enough to overlook someone falling out of their military aircraft.

My 2nd choice is Ft Huachuca, Arizona...so good weather for jumping....

I couldn't imagine being told not to jump...I think I'll avoid asking.

Hooaaaaah.

[napaguy99 0]

Thanks for all the input, guys. I knew there are a lot of military skydivers out there, but I never expected this many responses in so short a time.

I realize if I wanted I could go up the chain and see what the higher-ups say. However, as was mentioned before, this would probably piss off some folks below. I'm not really looking to fight it. If my ISIC tells me not to jump then I'm not going to. I was just curious to see what other commands have to say about it. I spent the first 18 years of my life not jumping and I think I can make it 4 more months. It's going to be REAL tough, but I think I can stick it out. In the meantime, if anyone wants to visit Florida let me know. I'm starting to get bored with not jumping.

I think the advice I will be taking from this post is the old adage: "Tis better to beg forgiveness than ask permission." Next time I'll just go til they tell me explicitly not to.

I'll be seeing you all in the skies over Texas this summer!

"Let the misinterpretation and attacks begin."

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

NO student in any course at the Special Warfare Center is permitted to participate in any skydiving or SCUBA diving while on student orders.

As it has been stated, many branches prohibit people from high risk activities while in a student status. While it may not seem to make sense(like forbiding skydiving when in HALO school for example) it has it's reasons. Everyone in the military knows the saying "there is always one" who can fuck it up for everyone else and it's true 99.9% of the time. Bottom line is you are an investment and the machine cannot function if all of it's parts aren't there or are broken. You'll have to suck it up while in school but there will be plenty of opportunities to jump afterwards.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING