Did you know what "reverse risers" were before the incident in OZ?

[DJL 235]

So, I've been skydiving 3 or 4 years now and might have heard the term "reverse risers" but had no clue there were incompatibility issues with them and mix-matched gear. I'm interested in hearing what the rest of the world knows. Everyone says it should have been caught in a flight line check, nevermind that someone should know their own gear.

Oz incident

Edit: By the way I hit send before correcting the poll. Oops. The way it is now there's no value in the cross reference of yes/no and time in sport.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[vt1977 0]

Just over 10 years in the sport and knew about the incompatibility issues.

Vicki

[yoink 321]

coming up to 3 years - knew there were problems with them last year getting locked against the jumpers shoulder when we recreated a mal that happened on the ground...
Very luckily the jumper wasn't badly hurt

[piisfish 140]

less than 2 years in the sport, did not know the dangers. Only saw them on Parachute de France rigs till now, and found that strange... I remember asking a guy in the plane if it was normal, that his 3ring was hidden... everybody laughed... then they explained me why...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I used to jump a set of integrity risers and never had a problem with them.

[councilman24 37]

Reverse risers are essentially incompatible with ALL rigs if the current criteria in these discussions are used. When Type 17 (1 inch) risers started breaking this was one answer to solve the problem. Reverse risers were sold and retrofitted on many rigs. The problem of not releasing without clearance was balanced against the danger of breaking a riser, especially the one with the RSL hook up. While there might of been some rigs designed with higher harness rings I can't remember any. I do know that at least one factory was offering the reverse risers as direct replacements to the standard risers on existing rigs.

This is NOT something that I would call wrong. I would educate the user to their limitations and alternatives now available. But I'd never consider pulling someone off a load.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sunshine 2]

I knew about reverse risers and had seen some. I'm ashamed to admit i didn't know the danger of using them on my rig which is a javelin. When i sent my main off to be relined last october, i borrowed a friends main that was on reverse risers. I just attached the reverse risers to my rig and jumped it that way for a few months. I didn't have any issues, but i won't be using reverse risers on my rig again now that i know javelins aren't supposed to use them.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Tonto 1]

They're only a risk if the gear is incompatible.

20 years in the sport.

Felt they were a knee jerk reaction to a non exsistant problem and knew the risk from about 6 years ago.

The only risk a breaking riser poses is to those with an RSL, and a $5 Collins lanyard would solve that.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Squeak 17]

I've been in the sport less than 18months and knew of the risks of mismatched reverse risers.

I was going to put a friends 170 Electra, from her PDF "Atom" container onto my Javelin (for about 20 jumps until my Hornet 150 arrived).
The 2 most senior instructors and other jumpers were all saying it's OK, and we were setting them up on my Javelin, when the CI (DZSO) came over and said, disconect them you won't be jumping that here, I called him a dickhead for being opositional. Then took the risrs off the main and connected my risers.
That was 12 months ago.
Last weeekend I walked up to him and apologised for being a dickhead, and thanked him for not allowing me to connect them.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[bmcd308 0]

I understood because I asked HERE.

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[fool 0]

I have just over 3 years in the sport, The set of gear I bought has integra risers on them, and no, I wasn't aware of the compatability issue. I've never switched them around or anything though... didn't really think about it.

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[Nightingale 0]

I knew about them, but only because I saw them on the plane at Perris and asked the jumpers. When I'm in the plane, I usually will pass some time by looking at chest straps and three-rings to make sure they're routed properly, and theirs looked different so I asked and got educated on the ride up.

[Unstable 9]

About 2 years in the sport, and I knew what reserve risers were and I was aware that they were only compatible with RI products and Parachutes De France. I'm not a rigger, but it seems that it was a solution to a problem that didn't exist. I feel much better with a pair of normal (non reversed) risers...

=========Shaun ==========

[riggerrob 643]

Sounds to me like the current witch hunt is doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
Sort of like lynching the local jews, gypsies, negros ... pick your minority ... rather than doing a serious investigation.

Reversed risers should be grounded because they are an antiquated design and we now have something better.
I am only criticizing reversed risers on the basis of the cable "suck down" phenomenon. Since reversed risers only have half the maechanical advantage and a spinning main malfunction may double or triple pull force on the release handle, I think reversed risers should be quietly retired.

[TomAiello 26]

I learned about reverse risers the first time I bought a rig with them. That was about four months after my first skydive.

There are still a lot of good reasons why I use them on most of my rigs. I just don't have them on my skydiving gear.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[AndyMan 7]

I do know what they are, and I've seen them. I don't know of any issues relating to them being incompatible.

Briefly scanning the incident forum, I STILL don't see any issue with them being incompatible.

They've gone out of fashion because they try to fix a problem that ended up having a better solution, but I don't think there's anything actually wrong with them...

Am I wrong?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

I used to jump a set of integrity risers and never had a problem with them.

I have them too, and haven't had a problem. Even did a cut away with them.
Derek did my last reserve repack and didn't like that I had them. It seems more and more people are worried about them. I needed to get my main relined, and sent that off to Brian Germain, and will also have a new set of standard risers put on by him after the reline. This way I don't have to answer all the questions I get while in the aircraft.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[sdctlc 0]

As much discussion that the "Integrity" or "reverse" risers seems to create the one key thing to remember is that if you use them you will not notice a difference in their use during normal jumping BUT there are some situations that need thought regarding your EP's. One example of a difference you need to think about is created by a reduced angle between the rings on the "reversed risers" and the reserve riser. This can restrict the "open" space needed to allow the "reversed" 3-ring system to unfold releasing the main. This is where the talk of incompatability comes into play. RI Flexon for example, of which I have owned 3 and jumped for may years, had the option for reversed risers, which I also had for a number of years (not any more and the story below will tell why). The location of the rings on the MLW with all of my Flexon's was much "higher" on the shoulder, i.e. more at the top of the shoulder compared to Jav, vec, or really any other rig. This gave a good deal more of the "Open" space for the reversed risers release when needed from a open malfunctioning main...

There are a number of ways to have a problem happen regarding the cutaway with reversed risers though. Some have been mentioned including the mechanical advantage issue for the cutaway. You can run into a problem if the reserve is deploying while under an open main or ball o crap non-cutaway main. We all know that the opening sequence of the reserve lifts its risers off the shoulder and the reserve riser becomes progressively closer to the "reversed" main risers rings if the main is not yet cut away.

Now from my own personal experience I was under my open main then realized my reserve was going out. I looked over my shoulder to see the freebag going to line stretch and my first thought was "shit" so I cut the main away before the reserve was open, thinking "quick chop fall under the reserve, canopy transfer all will be good!!"". Right???? WRONG!!!, a second later found myself looking up at a "Cut Away Main Main/Reserve Bi-Plane" with the cut away handle in my hand and cables dangling. Second thought: "WTF, this is not what I was expecting!" Luck had all ending good and that is a different story. I bring this up as something to think about regarding reversed risers…

The reverse risers are out there, not so popular now but they are still around. You need to think about the differences with EP's brought about with this type of riser. Have your emergency procedures thought out regarding different situations that may be generated by the reversed risers. It is not always as simple as cut away - deploy reserve every time. If you use decide to get or continue using reversed risers great, if you don’t great, but be aware how these risers might fit into your emergency procedures and beaware of the rig you jump in regards to the manufacturers stand on these risers.... A new set of Risers is about $100 and might be something to think about if you have any issues that come up while thinkig about the different problems that can come about with reversed risers. I dont jump them any more, have a set in my gear bag but not on anything...

Blue Skies,
Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[billvon 3,111]

I've been using them for about five years now with no problem. I use a set of standard riser and a set of reverse risers on one set of large harness rings for intentional cutaways; seems like that helps prevent interference between the two systems.

[sdctlc 0]

Quote

I dont jump them any more, have a set in my gear bag but not on anything...

Blue Skies,
Scott C.

I thought about my above post and wanted to clarify about my spare set. I would jump them with out hesistation if I had to for some reason. That is the reason I kept them. I am comfortable with them in the sense that I have thought through my EP's and possible differences that the risers can generate.... This was a lot of thinking about it AFTER the problem I had that I noted above..

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"