wingnut 0 #1 April 10, 2004 okay so hwere is my question: you are at the dz and it is near the end of the day and you only have 5 jumpers to jump but you need at least 6 for the last load of the plane to fly, well you decide you really want to jump and kick in an extra jump ticket cuz well yyou really want to jump and maybe the light load will give you a faster time to altitude, well now the dzo decides he will jump and that makes six eople so you think you are going to get your ticket back............... do you????? this has happened to me and i am just wondering..... i didn't,..... dzo said his slot doesn't count cuz he's not a paying customer..... it's tue, i just paid for his slot and he is in esence getting double out of the load cuz he is making profit on his own "fun" jump.......... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #2 April 10, 2004 Well I have mixed feelings, but it all boils down to communications. IF the DZ policy is that the DZO doesn't count towards minimums, then it is fine. It should at least be clear though. Maybe somebody should have told you. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #3 April 10, 2004 He might be right "on paper", since he is the owner and why would he have to pay? Fair enough... But he should know that it makes you guys "feel as if" all of you paid for his ticket. If I was him I would have given you the money for the 6th slot back before boarding. These 15$ or whatever really don't make the difference for him do they? I remember 2 weeks ago our 4-way team were the only 5 people in the sunset load of a Grand Caravan, just because DZO is a really cool guy. That's how you keep a DZ running because people will be positive and spread the word, rather than posting on DZ.com that they're a little pissed off. (The Caravan actually needs like 12 people or so to break even with the costs... we were like "Yeeehaaaah a plane of our own". 9 Minutes to altitude or so...) Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #4 April 10, 2004 Quote rather than posting on DZ.com that they're a little pissed off. don't get me wrong, i was a little mad but that passed very quickly as i exited the plane...... i was just wondering what the other jumpers here would experiance if it happened at thier dz............ and yes i later learned it is stated he doesn not count as a paying slot.... so it was all good...... i know now......... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antithesis 0 #5 April 10, 2004 I jump at a cessna dropzone But the dzo likes to do coach jumps there(no charge). when he does though, he's actually paying to jump because of the fuel, pilot and space in the little plane. I have so much respect for that man I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #6 April 10, 2004 QuoteThat's how you keep a DZ running Actually, that's really bad business and could put the dz under if it continues frewuently. Unless, there is enough warm season and jumpers that day to compensate. Not generally a wise business practice. Loosing money is never a good thing. It's nice that he is so cool but I wouldnt' excpect that all the time from a wise business man/woman. That could endanger the whole operation.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #7 April 10, 2004 Boils down to "ethics" does it not? A DZO can jump anytime he wants at the direct cost of the slot. A DZO with the desire to get the boys up would have taken the slot and not charged the extra or only the direct cost, i.e. fuel, etc. not margin.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #8 April 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteThat's how you keep a DZ running Actually, that's really bad business and could put the dz under if it continues frewuently. Unless, there is enough warm season and jumpers that day to compensate. Not generally a wise business practice. Loosing money is never a good thing. It's nice that he is so cool but I wouldnt' excpect that all the time from a wise business man/woman. That could endanger the whole operation. I had a somewhat differing opinion about what helps a DZ stay open, but I'll bow to your experience. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarge 0 #9 April 10, 2004 I have gladly split the ticket to get a porter up on a few occasions. Never w/a DZO or DZO kid/etc.. on board however It just aint right. Especially if he/she/they know sombody's paying for the spot just to get the plane up. -He better be buying beer after the jump! -Dammit!! This doesn't relate to your question in essence but, I have been so often stuck grounded because of minimums, I could barf! Wierd how things work out though, because out at Eloy the only people jumping one morning were an Airspeed 4-way and another team, they did like 12 loads that morning on the Otter, a few of them were just me and the other five jumpers. Weird... I felt redeemed for all the loads lost by only one or two jumpers. .-- I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #10 April 10, 2004 It really doesn't matter. You were willing to kick in an extra ticket to send it..... It got sent. If you think you were taken advantage of I would choose not to throw any extras in next time. Do you ever get a comped jump or fly for free? If your DZ is all about the money ( and BTW most are commercial enterprises and you can't fault that reasoning) then I would conduct my activities in the same manner. If a DZ is more like a homey co-op and comps tickets, sends loads light or doesn't always sweat the details of the mighty dollar then I would be happy to throw in an extra ticket now and then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bendywendy 0 #11 April 10, 2004 Does the dzo own the plane? If he does then he can just be an invisible person who doesn't count. If he does not then he has to pay for the slot to the aircraft owner. Now he probably claims his own slot as a load organizer slot which he doesn't have to pay the aircraft owner. BUT he can only claim LO slots on loads that have met the minimum. If that is the case, then it is a pretty shitty thing to do because he wouldn't have been able to jump for free unless you bought the slot. I had someone buy four slots at our dz a couple years ago to get the otter in the air. A bunch of staff went out and got on the plane thinking that they could use those paid slots. I refunded the guy his money and charged the staff. He'd been begging people for an hour to get on the plane and I'd even offered discounted/discounted rates to the staff to get this guy in the air then they thought they could just take advantage of him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #12 April 10, 2004 you rock way to stick up for a fellow skydiver Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #13 April 10, 2004 It's not so much experience as doing the numbers and being a tripple business major.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 1 #14 April 10, 2004 QuoteI refunded the guy his money and charged the staff. Possativley the correct thing to do, I hope the staff members appreciated the piont.Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #15 April 10, 2004 QuoteLoosing money is never a good thing. Nor is loosing a regular customer. That also amounts to money, much more money IMHO than the price for a single ticket. QuoteIt's nice that he is so cool but I wouldnt' excpect that all the time from a wise business man/woman. That could endanger the whole operation. He keeps a healthy balance. IMHO the only real asset a DZ has are happy skydivers. How can you put things like "good reputation" in numbers? You don't see or feel the lost money of the customer that never came to your DZ because someone told him that the DZO is greedy and doesn't really care about skydivers. Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paige 0 #16 April 10, 2004 Yes but a balance on the plus side is the only thing that will keep a dz going and the planes flying. If you loose money on loads you fly, it will catch up to you eventually. Fun jumpers don't make up all of the dz's profits or even the majority of them for most places. Tandems who pay more fly the planes and bring the dz the majority of the money. Lose the tandems and not the fun jumpers and you are in trouble.Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate www.TunnelPinkMafia.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #17 April 11, 2004 Thats just plain old "messed up." I think that would be enough to stop me from jumping at a DZ ever again. Regardless of what the rules are, that's just shoving it in your face. I would say something to him about it. Sorry it happened... .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #18 April 11, 2004 I am soooooo GLAD I jump at Sky Dive Ogden If you don't like how your treated then take your money somewhere else Won't take em long to figure out what they are doing wrong when the money dries up MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 334 #19 April 11, 2004 If there had already been 5 on the load, including the DZO, when you walked up, and you added as number 6, would the plane have gone with only 5 paying? If not, then you shouldn't get your ticket back. If so, maybe you should. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #20 April 11, 2004 QuoteI had someone buy four slots at our dz a couple years ago to get the otter in the air. A bunch of staff went out and got on the plane thinking that they could use those paid slots. I refunded the guy his money and charged the staff. He'd been begging people for an hour to get on the plane and I'd even offered discounted/discounted rates to the staff to get this guy in the air then they thought they could just take advantage of him. Wendy Kicks Ass! How can you not love this chic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #21 April 11, 2004 Quote Wierd how things work out though, because out at Eloy the only people jumping one morning were an Airspeed 4-way and another team, they did like 12 loads that morning on the Otter, a few of them were just me and the other five jumpers. Weird... . Usually the DZ has an agreement with a team. They promise the DZ to do so many jumps in a set period of time at usually a buck or three cheaper than the average ticket. In the long run, the DZ can make a profit from this. The DZ usually has to promise that the plane will go to alti no matter who else is on the plane. This in turns becomes a marketing tool for the DZ - they can let everyone know that the plane will be going up no matter what all week long in the morning, thus driving more jumpers to get out there on a weekday. Also, team jumps tend to happen very early on the weekends which will motivate the weekend warriors to show up early. I have seen several DZs offer the "7am club" which gets you cheaper jumps all day if you are out for the first load. Just another way to get more business._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #22 April 11, 2004 No, I wouldn't ask for my ticket back. You decided that that last jump was worth something to you, and you paid for it. Was the jump worth less to you because someone else got on the load? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #23 April 12, 2004 Quote IMHO the only real asset a DZ has are happy skydivers. How can you put things like "good reputation" in numbers? You don't see or feel the lost money of the customer that never came to your DZ because someone told him that the DZO is greedy and doesn't really care about skydivers. Yeah, "good reputation" equals goodwill. Goodwill is an actual asset that can pump up the price of a company. Hard to measure for sure, but it does play a role in terms of the value of a business entity. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudd 0 #24 April 12, 2004 If it is good business or not to loose money on one load depends on several condition. If it's been a good day with 20 loads with the plane, the DZ will still make money even if they give away one slot. It wouldn't supprise me if the 5 skydivers wanting one more load all had 10 jumps each that day. If it's good paying customers it not bad business to throw a little something their way once in a while. There is a long way from giving away a free slot, and to run the DZ out of business. There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #25 April 12, 2004 Fudd is dead on. The bottom line absolutely matters but so do happy customers. Giving away the occasional freebie spreads the good word. You can't do it all of the time and good customers understand that too. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
