Are there maneuvers that should NOT be attempted? (newbie question)

[kaon 0]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie with only 11 jumps (3 tandem + 7 AFP + 1 high solo), this is my first post, although I've lurked for abt 1 mth.

Instruction has so far been like "You must do this. You must do that..."
I have never been explicitly told what NOT to do. Except I guess the recommended L-shaped landing pattern implicitly forbids low turns and other risky canopy flying.

But beyond complying with the MUST-DO's, is there any thing that we should not do?

My fear is that experienced skydivers may forget to mention the should-nots to newbies because of the extent to which skydiving has become internatlized as second nature for them.

For example,

#1
Is it safe to hold down one or both steering toggles beyond say 20 seconds. (assume you have lots of altitude and clear traffic)
Can a canopy ever be irreversibly messed up from some toggle operation?
I have read of not getting enough blood to the brain from spinning. Anything else?


#2
Is there any body position that a newbie should never assume in freefall?
Is there any circumstance when arching will not work to get you stable?
I'm also thinking of body positions where the wind might undo container flaps... any such thing?

#3
Is there any exit method that shouldn't be attempted?

Thanks very much!

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Do not try anything without discussing it with your instructors.

[DanG 1]

It's kind of hard to answer your question because everything comes with a caveat. I'll try to address some of your specific questions, and you'll see what I mean.

Yes, you can safely hold down your toggles for 20 seconds, but expect your canopy may fly backwards and/or stall, so you need to be prepared for that. Talk to your instructor. He/she may suggest you try to stall your canopy, but all the stuff that comes with that can't safely be covered over the internet.

Also, the ISP contains something called reverse turns, which teach you that a canopy can be messed up (put into line twists) by hard maneuvering. To get a good idea what that is about, talk to your instructor.

Inexperienced skydivers shoud not try to fly head-down or in a sit, but with experience and coaching these positions can be safe and tons of fun. How much experience is needed? Talk to your instructor.

Arching will get you back on your belly and stable if given enough time, but there may be better techniques availabe given the situation. Talk to your instructor.

I can't think of any exit that shouldn't be attmepted, but again, if you have something in mind talk to your instructor and the pilot to make sure it is okay.

The internet is a lousy forum to teach skydiving. It is a good place to share ideas, but make sure you filter everything you read here through smeone you can trust: your instructor.

- Dan G

[thelem 0]

Before I say anything it is important to note that I have less than 100 jumps, I'm not an instructor and, more importantly, I'm not YOUR instructor, ie I don't know about you, your dz, your kit etc etc,

Having said that:

Quote

Is it safe to hold down one or both steering toggles beyond say 20 seconds.

This is how you stall a canopy, ie make it fly so slowly that there isn't enough air going into the canopy to keep it flying.
At the moment I expect you will be jumping big student canopies which are hard to stall, so it should be something to worry about now, but only someone who knows the kit you are jumping can say how easy it is to stall.
As you progress to higher speed canopies, they will become easier to stall and that is something that is worth playing with, particularly when test jumping a canopy you are thinking about buying. If you do this, speak to an experienced jumper before doing so. They should be able to give you advice such as recovering from the stall slowly and not doing anything silly near the ground.

Quote

I have read of not getting enough blood to the brain from spinning.

My guess would be that it is "impossible" to do this under a properly functioning canopy, but it might be possible in a normal freefall. I know it is possible for skysurfers to black out because of highspeed spins.

Quote

Is there any body position that a newbie should never assume in freefall?

Only do the body positions you have been taught, as you should also have been taught any important safety aspects of them (eg being careful which direction you are tracking in). If you want to try a new body position or a new dicipline (such as sit-flying) speak to one of your instructors who should be able to point you in the right direction once you are at a safe level to do that.

Quote

I'm also thinking of body positions where the wind might undo container flaps... any such thing?

If you decide to start freeflying (sit-fly/headdown) then it is important to make sure that the kit you are using has been designed with freeflying in mind. A lot of older kit hasn't.

Quote

Is there any exit method that shouldn't be attempted?

By the sounds of it you have already done an unstable exit, which is the most dangerous solo exit that I can think of, and definatly one I would recommend repeating (its great fun!).
Other than that, just get out of the door at the right time and don't hit your head on the door or anything stupid like that. Common sense.

[skr 1]

>is there any thing that we should not do?

That's a good question, here's a couple things
that come to mind:

In freefall if you're feeling rambunctious and
wanting to try a bunch of maneuvers, don't go
for too long at a time without stopping to check
your altitude.

If you're wanting to track stay out of other people's
airspace. Track perpendicular to jump run rather
than up or down it. And keep going in the same
direction, don't go back and forth, which means
also that if your track is good and you're getting
too far away then stop just fall straight down.


Under canopy watch for other people. That means
don't go spiraling down through the crowd or
making turns or even flying straight without
keeping your scan for other people going.

Also after you open and do your controllability
check start thinking ahead to how to set yourself
up for the landing pattern. Don't go zooming
cluelessly around and then make some stupid
last minute maneuver close to the ground.


Ask your teachers this question, it's a good one.

Down at the bottom of

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/index.html

is an article called "Wings Level" that can help
you think about your canopy flying.

Put some real effort into learning how to fly your
canopy. That's where most people are hurting
themselves these days.

Skr

[cocheese 0]

Yes you can "spin up" a canopy by being a toggle monkey. Don't do this below or near 1000 feet or you may need new underwear.
Don't do freefly moves with an old non freefly friendly rig.A premature or worse may happen.
An aggressive exit may cause a tail strike. Don't try to get 3 more feet of air on exit or fly up.
Don't make a move without looking.(or knowing it's all clear) Same thing in a car.
Keep track of jump run direction and which way you should track. This can be difficult sometimes, or easy to overlook, but it helps keep everyone safe.
Be aware of as much as possible.
After safety, Have as much FUN as possible. This is the most important part. Sometimes overlooked or forgotten by even the pros.
If it isn't fun anymore, take a break and remember the fun times.

[Remster 30]

One coaching and instructor technique we use in CSPA is to precisely do that. Tell the students what to do, not what not to do.

If you show him/her "see, this is not how to arch" while going in a featal position, there's a much bigger chance he will do that.

This can be applied to all parts of the skydive. Notice how the "wings level on final" is precisely that. Its not "dont turn close to the groud", its a positive way of passing knowledge which is much much more effective.

Remster

[skr 1]

>Tell the students what to do, not what not to do.

:-)

We should print that inside the goggles or visor
of all our teachers, it's a really, really important
point.

It takes effort to re word things in that way but
it makes a big difference.

Skr