newsstand 0 #26 May 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt would be the same as saying all gymnasts must be able to perform on all pieces of equipment. What is the point? Um, all gymnasts MUST be able to perform on all pieces of equipment. ... Hey don't confuse things with facts! How about all Olympic skiers must be able to compete in all forms of skiing from freestyle to ski jumping. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,135 #27 May 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt would be the same as saying all gymnasts must be able to perform on all pieces of equipment. What is the point? Um, all gymnasts MUST be able to perform on all pieces of equipment. In large international or collegiate competitions they perform on their best events to help the team score, but that does not apply to most competitions. They will never make it past the preschool gymnastics level if they aren't proficient at and compete in every event. You kind of proved jdfreefly's point, but you did it backwards and unintentionally. Kelly Dunno about that. A friend of my son was IL state (high school) pommel horse champion and he only ever did pommel horse. There's no requirement at any level (even Olympics) to compete in all-around.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #28 May 5, 2004 Maybe in high school gymnastics, but in the USGA, the only way to advance through the levels is to compete on all events and receive a minimum all-around score. Without advancing through the levels, you can never acheive elite status, therefore making you ineligible to compete in the Olympics (or any other USGA or FAI competetion). Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #29 May 5, 2004 If it's just notoriety that matters in being cross-competent in both FF (freeflying) and FS (formation skydiving), then we have one - the Millenium Award. If this can be achieved legitimately, it's a pretty clear indication of a good all around freeflyer that is also minimally competent at RW. (I hear the sit flying routine is the most difficult of the manuvers). I'd love to be good enough to do all 9 points in a single dive. Kallend is correct though - the licensing requirements are for prequalification for certain duties. Not as a status symbol. A D license (previously "master" not expert) is only impressive to newbies. By Ron's model, I'd qualify in FF, FS, big way, and CrW. But I sure wouldn't presume to even try and teach FF..... Edit: whoops, no AD# here yet, but definitely a 4 point FF in the recent past. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #30 May 5, 2004 Quote Not if you worked it according to my idea....A big way a Tandem rating and an AD# would qualify you. As would a PRO, an 8 point 4way, and a 4 stack. Or an AFF ticket, qualifying for the Pro swoop tour, and camera jumps. Kinda like how Padi does its "Advanced" card. It would be better - PADI gives out the Master Scuba Diver (not advanced) to any one that has taken Advanced, Rescue, and 5 specialty courses. Unfortuantely it means it's really just a frequent buyer program. Night diving is no longer required for Advanced, though, so one can become a master without ever having done a dive after sunset. A variety of skills in not a bad way to define the D, so long as this cert isn't required to do jumps that don't require one to be a multitalented jumper. But at the same time, what problem exists that it solves? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #31 May 5, 2004 QuoteIt would be better - PADI gives out the Master Scuba Diver (not advanced) My bad...I am NAUI. QuoteUnfortuantely it means it's really just a frequent buyer program. You don't think that there is some level of compentancy to be able to pass all the Advanced, rescue and the 5 specialty courses? I'll admit I didn't learn much in the Advanced class. But I did learn in the Master class. QuoteA variety of skills in not a bad way to define the D, so long as this cert isn't required to do jumps that don't require one to be a multitalented jumper. But at the same time, what problem exists that it solves? Really nothing. But now the "D" does not give you much anymore anyway. I really don't care, but I think showing proficincy in several areas is better than just doing 500 jumps and some BS sign offs. How do you feel about not having to do a night dive?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #32 May 5, 2004 Quote You don't think that there is some level of compentancy to be able to pass all the Advanced, rescue and the 5 specialty courses? I'll admit I didn't learn much in the Advanced class. But I did learn in the Master class. NAUI's Master class - called Advanced until ~1995 when they rename OWII to Advanced - is a serious class. Unfortunately it is rarely offered by dive shops. As for PADI's badge - I think a diver learns more in the Rescue class than the AOW plus 5 put together. We once added it up - one could go from nothing to MSD in as little as 15 dives, though now it includes a 50 dive req. I got a PADI speciality without even trying when I took a marine biology class - research diver. I would have gotten a 2nd one - underwater naturalist - if I hadn't refused to do any more dives under the instructor's supervision. Much of my distrust of taking information as it comes stems from the bad DMs and instructors out there. Nitrox is another easy one, as is underwater photography. Quote How do you feel about not having to do a night dive? For diving or jumping? I don't feel qualified to answer to the second, other than to say my biggest motivation for getting a B cert is to be allowed (or when I'm advised I good to go) to do a night jump. For diving, I think it should be necessary for any cert beyond OW. My second night dive was my 9th overall, and it took place at 3pm in July at 50ft. The red tide was so thick that no light made it past 30ft. A California diver must be prepared to deal with no light. For everyone else - I worry about how they'll react to a foreign situation if they can't handle this one. PADI removed the requirement to make it easier to sell the course. Anyone here with a C card that would like to do 'coached' dives on the more advanced spots of Monterey (Monastery, Metridium Colony, night), just drop me a line. The transition is easy enough with an experienced local to point out the potential hazards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d604 0 #33 May 6, 2004 CSPA, started a new CoP (license) system back in 2000. The first 3 licenses ensure that the skydiver has basic skydiving skills and survival FS skills (docking, tracking, etc.). After that to get a C or D license they have to perform 2 of 5 tasks (there are some other tasks, but that’s not important). Each task concentrates one the major disciplines, FS, style, freefly, CRW, and accuracy. Example, a skydiver could get a C license by performing 5 FS 4 way jumps with 5 or more completed formations within 35 secs (using 4 different FAI formations per jump) and perform a style set in 13 seconds. Other C license options, freefly series in 16 seconds, from sit, backloop, frontloop, 360 right 360 left, cartwheel right, cartwheel left; 5 CRW 4 way jumps, with 4 rotations (5 points) within 2.5 mins; 5 accuracy jumps within 15 cm of a electronic pad. D license options 5 FS 4 or 8 way with 7 points (35 secs & 50 secs respectively) each using 5 FAI formations; style in 11.5 secs; 2 way freefly with interactive camera consisting of exit move, spock, monkeyflip, spock, eagle, transition, dock, transition, dock, end move in 40 secs. (don’t have a clue what those formations are); 5 CF 4 way jumps with 8 rotations within 2.5 min; 5 accuracy jumps with in 5 cm on an electronic pad. This system kind of splits the difference and allows skydivers options but still requires them to be a well rounded skydiver. BTW. The first 3 licenses include a Solo Certificate which is not a CoP (license) or at least not in the eyes of the FAI. SeanCSPA ratings C1, C2, IA, IB, QE, RA, and EJR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyRamone 0 #34 May 6, 2004 The USPA has enough rules, I will do what every i want in the sky, why do i need to have more requirements? QuoteThe D is supposed to be an expert skydiver. How can we consider someone an expert if they can't do an eight point 4 way belly jump and a 4 point 2 way freefly jump? What is you definition of an "expert" ? If you want changes, then get on the board of directors and make them happen, you have that choice. At this time i do a lot of solo jumps, that is my choice, why do i need to get into RW? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #35 May 6, 2004 QuoteThe USPA has enough rules, I will do what every i want in the sky, why do i need to have more requirements? At this time i do a lot of solo jumps, that is my choice, why do i need to get into RW? You do not. You also do not need a D licence. You can continue to do solos or take up CRW or Freeflying or (almost) whatever you want without ever getting your 'D'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
