Large Skydivers

[Slyder 0]

Hey Everyone - A little venting from a piston jump pilot.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this post is meant to educate the Larger skydivers and manifest (who by the way have the hardest job on the DZ) who frequent piston operated DZ's.

** This is for your benifit and mine**

I'm going to avoid some unnessecary physics jargon, and keep a long story short.

***AFTER YOU SEE THE PILOT HAS JUST FUELED, DO NOT GET ALL YOUR LARGEST FRIENDS TOGETHER, PLAN A 4 WAY AND EXPECT TO GET YOUR ALTITUDE***

The pilot is going to be pissed at manifest, climb for 45 minutes trying to get you and your buddies up to 10,500. He's going to burn way more gas trying to get there, and the DZO is going to lose money. Not to mention the pilot probably fueled up for 3 loads with MINIMAL reserves.. and now he's thinking he might only get 2 loads. Which ultimately slows down the operation. I personally try to get 15-20 loads a day, and if I see my plane that normally climbs at 600+ FPM doing under 400 FPM.. I get pissed.

For those who are going to spill some Weight and Balance response my way...--- how often do I see some 230lb guy try to tell me he's 185. I look at skydivers (myself being one) and catagorize into 3 groups. Judging my W&B from that, or I use the "average male weight" and "average female weight" for my computations.

Another tip ---- if you are large, and complain about not getting your altitude ------ it's your fault so pipe down!!!

Thanks for listening.. and when I say large I mean it not only to the fat, but to the overly muscular.

***If you are large, ask to be on the load before fueling and you'll get to your alitutde, and you'll get there faster than you've ever imagined!!!***

If you find spelling or grammer errors, they were done on purpose.

Thanks for listening!!

Slyder

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Another tip ---- if you are large, and complain about not getting your altitude ------ it's your fault so pipe down!!!

***
No...I beg to differ.



If I pay my money for a certain altitude and don't get it...
It's your fault, not mine.

Want some Cheese with that?


Edited to add...
Rats!
Sucked in by a troll.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[velvetjo 0]

As both a pilot and a large skydiver, it sounds to me like you've got some communications problems between you & the manifest people. What's so hard about either saying no or sucking it up? Your choice.

Lance

[Slyder 0]

yeah.. the communication problem may exist.... but as i said.. the manifest people do have a hard job.. and when you have 1, 182 to work with.. it becomes hard to balance the tandems and the up jumpers.. just a tuff one for the DZO to keep em all happy.. ...so i understand and i do put up with it... thus the post aimed to the large guys to maybe offer or to put themselves on the "load before fueling"

[airtwardo 7]

Just curious as you have 2 posts here and no BIO information listed.

Where do you fly?
How many hours do you have?

...My better 1/2 was reading your post and says she
doesn't understand why someone wouldn't get their altitude
(10,500) in a 182 that's properly loaded?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Michele 1]

As a "larger" jumper, I've never NOT gotten the altitude I've paid for. I love my pilots, my manifest, and all the people - big or small - I jump with. And we all get to altitude...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

As a "larger" jumper, I've never NOT gotten the altitude I've paid for.

***
Me Too!
And I do jump a lot of piston aircraft,
so I don't understand the comment.

Unless 'Mile High' has a 182...that is.

...And at 6'4" and 225 lbs (sans gear) I'm not a
LARGE jumper...my jumpsuit is just FULL!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Slyder 0]

I'm not a super experienced JP - I do have roughly 1000 hours on piston jump planes and have flown for 3 different DZ's througout north america.. Currently I'm in a very very hot and damp environment, which doesn't help the situation....

Look guys.. this wasnt meant to be a bitching session... its me giving some tips as what load to put yourself on because of the characteristics of a flying vehicle.... I know what the aircraft can and can't do, and I will fly a machine based on average weights of males and females with rigs... Personally.. .I'll fly the machine for 45 mins for 1 load...I feel for the DZO cuz he/she just lost money....but what are you gonna do? I'm writing this more for you guys, and for the sake of keeping the DZO who is probably starting out, in business. Who knows.. maybe one day he/she will have saved enough money by manifesting properly to buy an otter (help him/her out!!)

ultimately --- the lighter the plane, the faster you're going to get to your altitude..... if the DZO has a good strangle hold on the times of the loads.. the pilot will dump you dudes after roughly 24-27 mins of climbing which could be lower than expected altitudes because he's doing 200FPM up top where the air is thin and the load is heavy. It's physics.

Take care ---- and think altitude before you eat that big mac

Slyder

[PhreeZone 20]

And how many piston jumps you do you have?

In Turbine planes this is really not an issue unless you are talking about going to 20k or higher.

I frequently get sick of spending more then 20 minutes cramped in a Cessna so if its looking like a big boy load (I'm 6'2" 175 so I am average weight but my long legs have issues ) I'll opt for the pass at anything above 3500 feet and take my 15 second delay.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ChrisL 2]

Hey I'm a body builder. I weigh 220 lbs and its taken me several years of hard work to get to where I am.

I think I'll just drop 30 or 40 of those hard earned lbs though, cuz I think the DZO will appreciate that.
I'm here to save him as much money as possible.
Maybe I'll just jump less or keep myself constantly up to date on how much fuel is in the plane so I know just which loads I should be getting on.

Oh wait, I have a better idea.
I'm there to jump, not worry about DZ economics.
They set the price and I pay it.
I dont have to worryt about stuff like fuel cuz I'm not a pilot and I dont have to worry about profits cuz I'm not in business.

I'm a paying customer and I expect to get what I pay for.
I think I'll just jump cuz thats what I'm there paying my money to do.

The freshly fueled Cessna 185 that I was flying in on Thursday got to 12,000 ft with no problems and a full load of jumpers.

__

My mighty steed

[atsaubrey 0]

Oh gawd do I want to get started?! Naw better not.

"GOT LEAD?"

[Michele 1]

Phree, how many piston jumps (none) I have is even my point...

The attitude of "Take care ---- and think altitude before you eat that big mac" is what I'm talking about. Slyder's "not a bitching session" which is a bitching session is what I'm talking about. If it wasn't a bitching session, he wouldn't have made a comment on big mac's, now would he?

Again, my point is that I've never not gotten the altitude I paid for.

(and as this thread goes into a sidespin rather quickly, I shall refrain from posting again....)

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

if the DZO has a good strangle hold on the times of the loads.. the pilot will dump you dudes after roughly 24-27 mins of climbing

***
Okay..I see your point, at least from your perspective.

But I gotta say...
If a DZO's 'time to climb' policy was causing me not
to get the altitude I paid for...I wouldn't be jumping there long.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Slyder 0]

Hey body builder guy.

I'm offering a suggestion - If you don't take it, fine.. you can sit cramped in a 185 for 45 mins...

Sure the 185 got you to altitude and maybe he did it quick, cuz the 4 other jumpers were average weight, and the plane glided back cuz the pilot only had 5 gallons of fuel on take off...

I'm not saying large guys and girls can't jump, I'm saying for the sake of the DZO, the pilot, yourself, and the guys and gals your jumping with --- be considerate. The other 4 guys sitting cramped in that plane don't want to be there anymore than you do... so if it takes forever to get there, its because the plane is too heavy... you fill in the blanks. Don't be a smart A$$. I feel for the DZO of your Drop zone.. you have a bad attitude.. and if you plan to last along time at a small DZ which are normally "family" oriented, you'll have to change your tune about being "a paying customer" and not giving a **** about the operation.

God Bless your soul.

[PhreeZone 20]

This does bring up a side tangent. If the plane is only getting 200 fpm and it takes 5-10 minutes to get that additional 1000 or 1500 feet to get everyone out at their "payed for altitude" is'nt that a safety concern for hypoxia?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

is'nt that a safety concern for hypoxia?

***
Only for mere humans...

(Sorry Phree...couldn't help myself)

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Slyder 0]

You can stay between 10 and 13 thousand feet for roughly 30 minutes before hypoxia sets in.

[airtwardo 7]

Just ask Sir Edmund Hillary.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[PhreeZone 20]

Thats weird.. I start to get a mild buzz going on at anything above 12k for more then 5 minutes. I get a really nasty headache at much over 10-12. I've been there and know my own limits. Altitude affects different people in different ways.

I had never wanted to ride a plane down more then when we had to circle for 10 minutes at between 12 and 14k msl a few years ago in FL. I could barely see through the stars my headache was creating.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Slyder 0]

you smoke?... you should get that checked out dude

[AggieDave 6]

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I feel for the DZO of your Drop zone.. you have a bad attitude.

Dude, you're definately the one with the bad attitude here!

If the 182 is flying that badly and everything is good to go mechanically, are you within the legal weight limit? If you're not, who's fault is that? Its your fault for not complying with the regs and it'll be your fault if something goes wrong in that situation.

Just because you're climbing slow, so you're not getting an extra $10 or so a day due to a lost load, that's a hell of an attitude to pull with the people that keep you flying loads. The jumpers.

Oh, you'd probably hate me. I'm 6'1 oh, I'm also an avid weight lifter, so I vary between 245lbs and 250lbs. Oh, I'm a TM, so I've got one of those big rigs on too.

Fly legal or don't fly, if you're flying legal and its taking 45 minutes to get to 11k in a 182, then something is NOT right. I would not want to be on that plane! Even the "worn out" 182s I've jumped with a full load of "Texan" jumpers that put us close to the plane's weight limit could still make 10-11k in 35 minutes or less.

Quote

Sure the 185 got you to altitude and maybe he did it quick, cuz the 4 other jumpers were average weight, and the plane glided back cuz the pilot only had 5 gallons of fuel on take off...

Who's fault is that? That's the pilot's fault. If he/she knows a load took longer, or the plane was "working harder" then all it takes is a couple minutes to stick the tanks.

If that step is being skipped because the DZO or pilot is trying to sqeeze one more load in, then I sure as hell don't want to jump at that DZ. Since if a simple procedure for safety like that is being skipped, then what else is being skipped as well?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

you smoke?... you should get that checked out dude

***
Does seem a little "short winded"

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[PhreeZone 20]

I've never smoked a day in my life. The published FAA numbers show what the average person should be able to accept. Everyone has different personal effects. Going to 17k in a Otter in IL a few years ago I was Hypoxic beyond belief and did'nt know it.

Hypoxia is a funny thing sometimes.

In backpacking 12k'ers and up I am really sensitive to altitude sickness most the time and have had to avoid camping on top of a few peaks due to the illness. Everyone reacts differently and this is how I react.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Slyder 0]

Alrighty then. Got someone fired up about this one!

Ok bud, here's the scoop: I dare your DZO to weigh every load you guys do infront of an FAA inspector. I GARAUNTEE you'll see some 3 person loads. Wake up sonny boy ---- the only way these planes go up with 4 big boys on board is because the pilot writes them down as "average" for weight computations.

And hey.. don't take it so personally... like I said --- if you had 3 other dudes your size in that plane, not only would you be there for awhile, but you'd be sweating all over eachother and wow... just think.. what if one of them had to put on a bird suit!

Oh and hey... if you'd read my posts correctly, I personally do not care if the load takes me 45 mins.. I'm building time!!... Its the DZO that loses money man...And if the DZO loses money.. you won't have a DZ and I won't have a job.

And the "texan" remark... I've never been there, but assuming you're referring to "larger" than normal people...and a 35 min load to altitude + the 8 mins it takes to desend is 3/4 of a hour at an operating cost of roughly $120 an hour... do the math. I dunno what your DZ is charging... but he ain't making alot of money.

One good thing that came out of your comment, was your appreciation for safety... I don't know alot of skydivers who understand that concept too well... but the few i do, usually understand what im getting at...

It's simply a balance between operational efficiency, and keeping everyone happy (large and small).

Take this as factual information, not as a personal crack against your superior physique.

[atsaubrey 0]

im 360lbs otd...does that mean i'll have to do solos at your DZ too....DAMN! another solo!

"GOT LEAD?"